Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

[floridaorange]

Re: Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

^^^dont get me wrong i 100% agree...but i dont think the country can take much more of this goverment incompetent madness. wtf is going on. it aint getting better its worse.

Getting involved helps and more voters turned out for Obama's election than ever, young voters too, not just minorities...that's a positive step for the electorate process...Now we've got really tough issues that have to be faced now, not later.

I do think that as a society we have honestly begun to get a grasp on what needs to happen in order to make things better economically, but I don't think any of us should expect things to get back to where they were a few years ago.

And rightfully so, the market was on a collision course with time, ask any investor with an IQ 3-5 years ago, they saw it coming and knew prices and values were ridiculously inflated.

At least we have a president who can communicate.

[Cj Tari]

Re: Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

I wouldn't call it "ignorance of the general population" but rather "ignorance of the media." The media pushes stories hard and all they have to do is say "what people are really talking about..." as if they care what the people are talking about. They make the talking points by using statments like that.

i do agree with you on that, that the media just pushes so damn hard on some of these issues that people just end up believing them, but that's where the ignorance comes in, because you have people that can look you straight in the face and say that they get their news from Bill O Reily, or Limbaugh, where it would be the same as people saying, i get my news from AirAmerica and Jon Stewart.

about Obama being Hittler, well, mr Limbaugh disagrees with you on that:

http://www.alan.com/2009/08/06/limbaugh-democrats-are-like-nazis/

[Miroslav]

Re: Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

spend spend spend and unemployment rises, house value falls yet wh says we are out of recession!

suprise some of u aint seeing this.


wtf is going on in the us is realy getting to the point of being absurd!

You seem to think, like many people, that when the economy is improving, then that must mean by definition that unemployment must be falling - that it is a tight 1-to-1 relationship. But did you know that at the end of ar ecession it is quite possible - normal, even - to have positive economic growth (i.e., positive quarter-on-quarter GDP growth) even while unemployment still rises and other asset values decline for a while longer? Back in the recession of 2001, official statistics show that the unemployment rate didn't peak until 19 months after the recession officially ended.

Take a look at this graph from the National Bureau of Economic Research. Notice how the unemployment typically rate keeps growing well past the period where economic growth turns positive?

http://www.metrodenver.org/files/images/metro-denver-economy/RisingUnemployment2.jpg

Now why is that? Part of it likely has to do with the methodology that the NBER uses to determine when a recession ends and what the unemployment rate is. But a big part of it is because after a recession, growth tends to first come from increases in productivity. That means that typically investment resumes, technology improves, etc. before people start being hired back en masse. Eventually, employment will rebound, but it is not a tight, immediate relationship - and certainly not one that Obama can just quickly change from the Oval Office.

I would also add that recessions - particularly a deep one such as this - are caused by a confluence of factors that extend way before Obama's time. And these problems can't be turned around on a dime; the economy does not work like a light switch. It takes time for consumers and businesses to deleverage themselves financially and come to trust where the "bottom" is - i.e., that the vast majority of losses out there have been realized. And so it's going to be a long road until things are back to where they were - and I think that road would pretty much be the same regardless of who you have as President.

His spending decisions...now that's a bit of a different debate...

[runningman]

Re: Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

I get uncomfortable even talking about recovery. Fannie and Freddie need another $10 Billion? It is like watching the same movie. Watch in 6 months Goldman and Citi will need more money. This recovery talk is nonsense and to believe in it is like believing in the tooth fairy. Commercial Real Estate is hanging on by a thread and the dollar crisis hasn't cooled down yet between the Chinese and the US. China doesn't believe you will pay them back..

I think the overall message from the American people is that they want their jobs back. They couldn't care if companies are making money by slashing jobs. They want to make money too. They feel betrayed and the anger is coming out in these town halls. All that built up aggression, I hope it cools down though. A tipping point might happen over the next few months.

[Miroslav]

Re: Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

^^ I don't disagree that recovery right now is shaky at best. I'm certainly not saying that recovery is here and that things will soon go back to the way they were; my point was more of a general one about how economic cycles work with respect to unemployment. A lot of economists are saying that this could be much more of an "L-shaped" recession than the more traditional "U-shaped"...meaning that we might not see a return to good old growth - it might be closer to flat or very anemic growth at best for a while. And of course, it's always tricky to say when a recession ends, because you can only make the best assessment once you're already well past it and looking back at the data.

[superdave]

Re: Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

well i guess she wasnt that wrong::::

http://www.alan.com/2009/08/06/pelosi-is-correctthey-are-carrying-swastikas-at-town-hall-meetings/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/0..._n_252815.html

Notice there is a line through the Swastika. And aren't the Democrats really stepping over the line now by saying to hit back twice as hard by calling in labor unions and other groups to combat the protesters by inciting violence? And what is this crap about spying and notifying the White House if you see something fishy. The liberals would have went nuts if George W.'s admin. did something like this. The Democrats are showing they are just as corrupt and bad as the Republicans.

[Cj Tari]

Re: Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

it would be great if you elaborate on such claims, the last thing i heard about notifying the White House about fishy stuff is this:

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2030790/flagwhitehousegov_a_snitch_line.html

which i think its a pretty dumb move, but if you really think about its mostly a way for them to stop spreading false information, still i think its a pretty dumb way of doing it.


and about the swastikas, like i pointed out before, if you listen closely to Pelosy's quote, she only says "well, theres people carrying swaskitas and symbols like that, so you be the judge", she didnt say people were acting all nazi like, or that they were wearing swastikas etc etc etc. she's only pointing out the swastikas, which are present in a lot of these town hall meetings.

[Miroslav]

Re: Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

Notice there is a line through the Swastika.

A rational interpretation of that picture is as follows:

The holder of the sign is a protester, and therefore most likely an opponent to Obama's plans.
Thus, the line through the Swastika most likely connotes that she does not want Nazism in the same manner that she does not want Obama's plan.
In other words, that protester is comparing Obama to Hitler.

You follow? So the fact that there is a line through it doesn't make it "better". I think the intent of that swastika with the line through in its reference to Obama it is pretty clear to most people.

On a side note, it's a completely idiotic comparison, of course, even if one is opposed to the proposed health care reforms.

[superdave]

Re: Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

it would be great if you elaborate on such claims, the last thing i heard about notifying the White House about fishy stuff is this:

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/2030790/flagwhitehousegov_a_snitch_line.html

which i think its a pretty dumb move, but if you really think about its mostly a way for them to stop spreading false information, still i think its a pretty dumb way of doing it.


and about the swastikas, like i pointed out before, if you listen closely to Pelosy's quote, she only says "well, theres people carrying swaskitas and symbols like that, so you be the judge", she didnt say people were acting all nazi like, or that they were wearing swastikas etc etc etc. she's only pointing out the swastikas, which are present in a lot of these town hall meetings.

Ok, I'll be judge like Pelosi says and I think she sucks, stupid and dangerous. The Democrats will have to run her off eventually before she causes them to lose control of the House. There's clearly a line through that sign of the Swastika and there is no such symbols at these events.

Here's a link for you about labor unions beating up a black man at a town hall. Much worse than vociferous arguments from the right wing.

http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/gibbs-those-comparing-dems-to-nazis-on-thin-ice-2009-08-07.html

[superdave]

Re: Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

A rational interpretation of that picture is as follows:

The holder of the sign is a protester, and therefore most likely an opponent to Obama's plans.
Thus, the line through the Swastika most likely connotes that she does not want Nazism in the same manner that she does not want Obama's plan.
In other words, that protester is comparing Obama to Hitler.

You follow? So the fact that there is a line through it doesn't make it "better". I think the intent of that swastika with the line through in its reference to Obama it is pretty clear to most people.

On a side note, it's a completely idiotic comparison, of course, even if one is opposed to the proposed health care reforms.

Yes, both sides should not compare anyone to Hitler or Nazis. The girl with the sign and Pelosi should not compare how evil the Nazis were over a health care debate. To do so, trivializes the millions killed and the holocaust. I wish everyone would stop the Nazi references.

[Cj Tari]

Re: Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

there is no such symbols at these events.

ok.


nice t-shirt dude : "Hitler Gave Great Speaches Too"


even the kids know thy swastika.

and last but not least::

the good ol "SS"


i mean c'mon man, lets face it, people are being organize on both sides of the table to create this types of protests, im not gonna defend the democrats and say that they are acting all grown up and just watching this from the sidelines, because im assuming they are not, but just to look at some of this shit is just childish.

[etincelles]

Re: Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

....

[Miroslav]

Re: Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

There's clearly a line through that sign of the Swastika...

Which sign? Oh THAT one..the one in the picture that was taken at the health care town hall event? ok.

...and there is no such symbols at these events.

*sigh*...

Yes, both sides should not compare anyone to Hitler or Nazis. The girl with the sign and Pelosi should not compare how evil the Nazis were over a health care debate. To do so, trivializes the millions killed and the holocaust. I wish everyone would stop the Nazi references.

ok missed this the first time...I'm glad to see you move in this direction, because I was really getting worried. The only thing I would add, though, is that Pelosi was responding based on those cases of the documented footage, and all she said was that there were some people at the rallies going around brandishing stuff with Nazi symbols on them - which is undeniably true. So it's really unfair of you to paint her in the same light as that girl, who was actually the one clearly accusing Obama of being Nazi-like in his policies.

Now, to be clear, I recognize that these are fairly isolated cases we're talking about; I may believe that Republicans and conservative groups help organize these protests online, but I don't actually think that they are telling people to go around carrying swastikas and the like. And I think it's a bad tactic for anyone - hell, Democrats did similar stuff to Bush back in his office term.

By that same token, though, I'm also equally skeptical of your claim that Democrats are telling unions to go around and beat people up. At this point, without clearer evidence, I'm inclined to believe that what happened in St. Louis was an unfortunate, isolated event. I hope that you would recognize that as well.

[Miroslav]

Re: Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

nm...accident

[floridaorange]

Re: Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

The swastika people are clearly in dyer need of attention. These protestors are probably comprised of individuals who have absolutely no clue that the mess began far before Obama was even tapped by his party to run for the presidency.