Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

[Miroslav]

Re: Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

Oh Miro this is embarrasing. I hate to have to do this but.... and CJ you yet again show your intelligence by backing Miro on his statement.

I wonder how the media is going to spin this tomorrow. Maybe just a quick retraction so the sound bite can stay alive and well.

Yes, I fully admit that my comment about the AARP was not correct: AARP says it supports health care reform per se, but they have not yet fully endorsed a specific plan.

But guess what? I was still half right; their spokesman did speak out and say that the "death panels" are a pile of bullshit:

"We've been hearing concerns from our members that this is a step toward government-mandated euthanasia," says Jim Dau, a spokesman for the AARP, the advocacy group for people past age 50, which supports health-care reform to help older Americans. "These are baseless scare tactics put out by those who seek to derail health-care reform. The bill would help people find resources to help themselves and their doctors make important decisions about the end of their lives."

And guess what else? The AARP supports this advance care planning portion that people are misconstruing as "death panels":

The AARP's Dau feels that, despite the controversy, the advance care planning portion of the bill will survive and become law. "This is such a commonsense, win-win piece," he says. "I'm sure it's considered good sense by lawmakers of both political parties, and medical associations and nursing groups."

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/jul2009/db20090730_530683.htm

And guess what else? None of this crap with the AARP still changes the fact that the claims by the right-wingers about death panels (!!!) and such are completely wrong. There is a difference in erring on what the AARP claims as to their endorsement vs. erring on the basics of what is in the proposal. Comprende?

So basically, aside from that specific comment about the AARP's full endorsement, which is like 1% of my post, the entire remaining 99% of my post makes complete sense and is relevant.

And by the way, let me say it again - I don't even support the plan as it presently stands, which you could have found out if you had actually read some of my previous posts in this thread. But I try to form my opposition for rational reasons based on what's in the plan and not irrational partisan "socialism" fearmongering.

So chew on that.

[superdave]

Re: Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

In response to some of the other posts, I never said there were death panels. Palin said that not me. The bill hasn't been properly explained by anyone so people will interpret it a lot of different ways is my point. And more importantly seniors and other citizens like me don't trust government or Obama. When Obama and the bill mentions end of life care as too expensive and we can save money then people especially seniors get nervous.

And another thing Miro, why are you arguing with me and RM if you don't even agree with the bill in its current form? You and the President were wrong about AARP's position. I'm for health care reform too, but I don't like the bill because no one really understands it and it's too big of a bill to pass not to understand.

I watched most of the Obama town hall and it seemed like a big lie to me. The way he explained it everyone gets covered, you can still see your doc and it doesn't cost any more money in taxes except for those rich bastards. If that was true, then I'm all for it, but I don't believe him. He basically said the plan would pay for itself or profit from cutting out waste in health care. I logically don't see how you can cover 50 million more people mostly who are illegal aliens without incurring billions more in cost.

[Cj Tari]

Re: Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

i think there is a big difference on supporting the bill, and just presenting the facts, ive been reading Miros posts and most of them are just examples of how misinformed people are, just look at some of RM's claims, which most of the times can be really inacurate.

Again on the AARP, just look at the links i posted on the other page, the AARP has been supporting the bill since it was proposed, what made them back out of their claims? i really dont know, but just look at the facts, the statements are there, the videos are there.

Also, just like youre pointing out, how can you opose something you dont fully understand, RM posted a couple of websites where you can get the information you need to fully understand the bill, then, once you understand it, you can take a position and either hate it or just support it.

Was watching this last night on TV, really gives you a different perspective on how much we need somekind of a health care reform.

http://www.nbc-2.com/Global/story.asp?S=10887981

[runningman]

Re: Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

the problem is CJ is that the bill is written in hardcore lawyer jarble. Nobody can understand it. I actually tried reading it and realized it was a lost cause because I couldn't keep track of all the sections.
Which means you have to trust people. The mob (as we can see) doesn't trust anybody.

Miro death panels are exactly what is going to happen. They happen already today with Insurance comapnies (ever see John Q). The only difference is that the goverment will be in charge of you should receive. Rather than getting possible life saving treatment you will end up in triage with a saline IV. Again how much do you trust your goverment? and why if you do?

Also to say support from AARP members is support you are wrong. I need support from firemen for LaserAid but to say firemen support LaserAid would mean that I need support from the President of the US Fire Marshals. Watch out for the play on words.

I can't beleive that the AARP lie isn't a major story today.

[Miroslav]

Re: Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

And another thing Miro, why are you arguing with me and RM if you don't even agree with the bill in its current form? You and the President were wrong about AARP's position. I'm for health care reform too, but I don't like the bill because no one really understands it and it's too big of a bill to pass not to understand.

Look, maybe I was too harsh on you and I apologize. I argue with runningman because... well, I think that's pretty obvious to everyone as to why. I argued with you because I guess I just find it frustrating that this is the way the whole debate is turning out... that barely credible "leaders" like Sarah Palin can get the entire right wing to shut off their brains and go hysterical about completely fictional things without any facts whatsoever. And that's a shame, because after this thing fails (and it probably will), there will be no debate about health care for another decade or two by which time health care spending as a percentage of GDP will have skyrocketed through the roof. And so we waste this opportunity to have a real debate about what could be done with health care because of these partisan scare tactics.

Miro death panels are exactly what is going to happen. They happen already today with Insurance comapnies (ever see John Q)..

Whatever.

And John Q was a fictional movie. Do you understand what that means? It means it was not a true story. Google it and see what you find. So while I'm not saying that problems don't occur with insurance companies, you may want to reconsider citing that movie as evidence of "death panels". ("oh runningman...this is so embarrassing...I hate to do this but ").

[runningman]

Re: Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

Miro you are just being ignorant because I ass raped you on your AARP call. You would be better off just admitting you were completly wrong and in the future you will look deeper into Obama's words.

John Q was a fictional story but the overall meaning applies to today's world. Surely you must have been to a hospital in your lifetime where you realized that more could have been done but wasn't because of money? I did when my grandma was sick in Michigan. They said there wasn't anything they could do and moved her to triage. After my mom signed the paperwork to move her to triage a different doctor (by my request to the family) came in and said they could have operated still (lungs) but since my mom already signed the papers there was nothing we could do but hold her hand and wait for her to die 5 days later.

[Cj Tari]

Re: Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

Miro you are just being ignorant because I ass raped you on your AARP call. You would be better off just admitting you were completly wrong and in the future you will look deeper into Obama's words.

John Q was a fictional story but the overall meaning applies to today's world. Surely you must have been to a hospital in your lifetime where you realized that more could have been done but wasn't because of money? I did when my grandma was sick in Michigan. They said there wasn't anything they could do and moved her to triage. After my mom signed the paperwork to move her to triage a different doctor (by my request to the family) came in and said they could have operated still (lungs) but since my mom already signed the papers there was nothing we could do but hold her hand and wait for her to die 5 days later.

again with the AARP, you are doing the same thing the right wingers are doing with the "Nazi" thing, someone pointed them out, not it must mean that they are calling them "Nazis", Obama said, the AARP supports our plan, and they did, now they are saying, we didnt endorse it, oh well, just like youre saying right now, be careful with the play on words.

[floridaorange]

Re: Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

Miro you are just being ignorant because I ass raped you on your AARP call.

wtf?

[runningman]

Re: Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

AARP said they were for healthcare reform but they never endorsed Obama's plan. He lied about it.

[Miroslav]

Re: Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

Miro you are just being ignorant because I ass raped you on your AARP call. You would be better off just admitting you were completly wrong and in the future you will look deeper into Obama's words.

Whatever. If you want to see ignorant, look in the mirror. I was not completely wrong; I posted on minor inaccurate detail while the vast majority of my post was right. What I said about there not being any "death panels" in Obama's plan is COMPLETELY TRUE, and even you can't find evidence to deny that. So suck on that.

I guess you're too oblivious to even realize that I and just about everyone else on the board completely ream you on a daily basis like clockwork for the ludicrous, cracked-out fantasies that you post on here with no shred of reality or common sense ("everything's a Mossad / CIA conspiracy!").

[floridaorange]

Re: Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

TO RM:

You realize Obama doesn't call for many of these kinds of endorsements, one of his staff does, they are probably your age or younger with a college degree and have campaign experience.

If you look at AARP's website, one would assume they had endorsed the Obama administrations reform proposal, I would have.

Either way, endorsement blunders happen all the time, does not make anyone a liar, get a clue man.

[runningman]

Re: Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

well you can go think positive thoughts and hopefully it will just go away. You're right though, the CIA and Mossad are just for show. They really don't do anything..

Go believe your liar!! Drink the KoolAid

[toasty]

Re: Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

Miro you are just being ignorant because I ass raped you on your AARP call. You would be better off just admitting you were completly wrong and in the future you will look deeper into Obama's words.

Good lord, dude, talk about overplaying your hand.

[runningman]

Re: Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

I love it every time I'm right I get personal attacks.

He LIED!!!!

You mean to tell me the President read the website and misunderstood??

[toasty]

Re: Town Halls Turn into Town Mess

I love it every time I'm right I get personal attacks.

He LIED!!!!

You mean to tell me the President read the website and misunderstood??

If you think that "you've overplayed your hand" is a vicious personal attack, then you clearly don't have a thick enough skin to be in this forum.

I don't know what the President did and didn't read, but I do know that you pointing out that the normally spot-on Miro was incorrect on one detail of his post hardly constitutes an "ass-raping." If every time someone proved you wrong, you'd sustained an "ass raping," we'd be able to use your rear end as a conference room by now.