you know what's astonishing?

[runningman]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

didn't you watch the video? It was molten steel. Steven jones tested it. Jeez.. Miro you are the conpiracy theorist. You still have no reason why Building 7 imploded into its own footprint. As well as the other towers imploded into the strogest part of the structure (THE CORE) Core's usually pretty strong since it holds up the building.

Where did the pyrocrastic flow come from? Concrete doesn't explode in mid air.

Where did the Core go in all the buildings?

Why are there thousands of witnesses hear explosions in the building?

Why did the buildings fall when the fires were almost put out?

Why are you arguing when Larry Silverstein even ADMITTED they "PULLED" the building? Pulling is a contsruction controlled demolition term to implode buildings. Nothing else.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZ9BofDUXv0

Steel melts at 2750* how did the temperatures get so hot when Kersoene burns only at 1200* for only a few seconds?

Molten Steel Picture Building still standing



Pic During Clean up



You can't get pools of molten steel from welding.



Basic common sense is proven to be unreliable. Science with scientific facts to back it up is the way to go. I mean an idiot can see building 7 was pulled. Look at how it fell?! I mean come on. Look how even it fell. Do yourself a favor and watch the end of my video with a controlled demolition expert. You get your expert that proves otherwise.

Also your Pentagon theories are awful. The Pentagon has some 70 cameras that caught the footage yet they only released a couple clips? Remember when the Minnesota bridge collapsed we had those images by the 6 o clock news.

You don't have any facts you just have theories based on common sense. I have experience in demolition when I was in construction and I have investigated 9/11 far more than you since it deals directly with my business. I mean you can believe what you want it is a free country even if it is a lie.

[Miroslav]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

didn't you watch the video? It was molten steel. Steven jones tested it.

No, HE DIDN'T. Not unless he was up in that building at the time that it was "melting out the window". He tested a sample LATER AFTER THE BUILDING FELL AND BURNED FOR WEEKS, at which point any number of unique events could have caused the outcome long after the building had fallen.

That debris pile sat cooking for weeks, and the materials at the bottom of the pile could increase in heat to the point of melting in isolated areas because the fires were confined and the loss of heat was minimal; and there was lots of material to fuel the fire (plastics, fuels from elevator hydraulics, cars, etc.). But this happens in periods of prolongued combustion. That was stated by NIST investigators from the America Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) and Structural Engineers Association of New York (SEONY).

This is just another example of your "scientific" reasoning:

Steven Jones tested a sample of something that came from the World Trade Center a long time after it fell and burned for weeks;

Therefore, the building steel must have been melting while it was standing.

That's completely false reasoning. STEVEN JONES' TESTING TELLS YOU NOTHING ABOUT THE CONDITION OF THE STEEL WHEN THE BUILDING WAS STANDING!

[runningman]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

ok Miro whatever you say. The buildings imploded into its core because the core is weakest point of the building..

2+2=5

The sky is yellow.

FACT - Steven Jones got samples from a womans apartment across the street after the buildings fell. Not only from the bottom of the pile. He had 4 samples from 4 different locations. All point to thermite or thermate.

The building was a fortress that could withstand multiple hits from multiple planes (WTC Architects) . Building 7 was imploded (obviously) I mean science points that way and common sense. The Pentagon nobody knows what happened there. Our arguments just prove that there needs to be a new investigation. Still to many questions.

You see Miro you don't have facts you have theories. I have facts. Testing from multiple locations. Testimony of witnesses hearing bombs in the building. What more do you need? You still didn't answer any of my questions... Just goes to show the facts are on my side because I have reasons.

I like how my sources aren't credible but your "pictures" link is some no named Scott Sleeper blog...HAHAHAHAHA..

[chunky]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

And I honestly don't know much about what Bush said or was smoking on that day, but I would take everything that ever came out of the man's mouth with a grain of salt for one reason: the guy wasn't too bright, and he said stupid, contradictory shit on an almost daily basis. Maybe I'll look into it more when I get home, I can't here at work. .

You can see it here

Check out 5 min's 19 seconds until the end

[youtube]ALtNYBX7OmM[/youtube]

[Miroslav]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

FACT - Steven Jones got samples from a womans apartment across the street after the buildings fell. Not only from the bottom of the pile. He had 4 samples from 4 different locations. All point to thermite or thermate.

FACT - Whatever Steven Jones tested after the event STILL does not provide ANY support to your assertion about the condition of the steel WHILE THE BUILDING WAS STANDING.

FACT - You post videos with ironworkers using blowtorches and firefighters using artificial lighting and claim that is evidence of the"heat" in the rubble. That is just absurd.

FACT - You ASSUME that something you saw coming out the side on a Youtube video is "molten steel", and you think that the building could still be standing at that point if it's hot enough to melt steel.

FACT - SO FAR, YOUR "FACTS" ARE RIDICULOUS.

[runningman]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

your claims are weak at best and any scientist if you brought that data (your argument) wouldn't hold up to scientific scrutiny. They changed the colours of the pictures?? HAHAHAHAHA.. bright lights.. Oh ya Miro the welders caused the molten steel.

Larry Silverstein is on record saying he decided to pull it? What is your reasoning behind this? Just answer this one for me since you haven't answered any.

I think it is safe that you are the conspiracy theorist on this one.

[Miroslav]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

your claims are weak at best and any scientist if you brought that data (your argument) wouldn't hold up to scientific scrutiny. They changed the colours of the pictures?? HAHAHAHAHA.. bright lights.. Oh ya Miro the welders caused the molten steel.

Larry Silverstein is on record saying he decided to pull it? What is your reasoning behind this? Just answer this one for me since you haven't answered any.

I think it is safe that you are the conspiracy theorist on this one.

I will answer you after you answer to the three points I noted above with regard to the COMPLETE FALLACY AND LUNACY OF THE "FACTS" YOU STATED.

Also, add this one in your file as well: "testimony" of inexperienced people who think they "heard bombs" while a building is being hit by large jets and is burning is NOT a reliable way of determining if there was in fact a bomb.

I think it is safe to say based on how you completely brush all of my points aside that you do not even have the capacity to recognize how far gone from reality you actually are.

[runningman]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

firefighters don't qualify to know what a bomb is? Your arguments are getting even funnier Miro.

Ok now I'm crazy? HAHAHA ok defender of the US.

[chunky]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

firefighters don't qualify to know what a bomb is? Your arguments are getting even funnier Miro.

Shortly after 9/11 NY Firefighters recorded over 500 oral histories on 9/11 recounted their experiences of that day. Mayor Bloombergs Administration refused to release these histories until victims families took them to court and won to get the histories released. Many of the testimonies mention multiple explosions along with other strange occurrences.

Check out 38 minuites

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8707513149655779206&q=source%3A000974024203882481900&hl=en

The experts couldn't recreate the conditions of the official story when they tried to with the floor models in furnaces.

[Cj Tari]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

i hate this type of discussions because no matter what side of the discussion you are on, you are acomplishing NOTHING!

[chunky]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

I don't see the problem with discussing it. It is a subject that will be debated for years to come. Its not going to go away much as many people want it to. Personally I think this will only seriously get looked at in many years time. Many people feel cheated and lied to and the number of people how don't believe the official story is only going to grow. Though this will not change anything.

[Miroslav]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

Shortly after 9/11 NY Firefighters recorded over 500 oral histories on 9/11 recounted their experiences of that day. Mayor Bloombergs Administration refused to release these histories until victims families took them to court and won to get the histories released. Many of the testimonies mention multiple explosions along with other strange occurrences.

Check out 38 minuites

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8707513149655779206&q=source%3A000974024203882481900&hl=en

The experts couldn't recreate the conditions of the official story when they tried to with the floor models in furnaces.

I'll check your stuff out when I'm at home, sorry I can't do it here at work.

But seriously... what do you have to say to your suggestion that no plane hit the Pentagon when there were so many independent witnesses who saw it and who also saw the aftermath inside of the destroyed building? You seem fairly with it...are you really going to just turn a blind eye to that basic reasoning? Do you not see the fallacy of making claims about "molten steel before the buildings fell" based on a Youtube video??

firefighters don't qualify to know what a bomb is?

No, not from what they "think they hear" while a building has been hit by jets and is burning and getting ready to fall down. That is NOT a reliable way to determine if there was a bomb.

[floridaorange]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

I'm sure when pieces of glass and steel are falling from 800 feet in the sky, they sounds like explosions...

I do think that this article answers most of the engineering questions well:

http://www.absconsulting.com/news/latimes.pdf

"It's quite a famous structural system," said Fenves. "It's very well-designed."
Steel buildings in general are known for their strength. Even less well-designed steel
buildings survived the 1906 earthquake in San Francisco and the 1933 Long Beach
quake, Youssef said.

When they were built in 1970, the World Trade Center towers were the world's
tallest buildings. But the strength designed to withstand wind was no match for the
fireball of an exploding plane. "We didn't have any terrorism in mind when the
buildings originally went up," Hooper said.

While engineers are exploring ways to "bomb-proof" buildings to protect occupants
from flying glass and crumbling walls, it is considered too costly and not socially
desirable to attempt to protect buildings from the type of attack that occurred
Tuesday.

"We'd be living in bunkers," Youssef said. "We cannot turn the country into
bunkers."

[chunky]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

I don't think I suggested that no plane hit the Pentagon. I stated that I haven't seen any footage of one hitting the Pentagon. I find it strange how you are willing to side with the Pentagon witnesses but not the New York witnesses.

I can't answer for all the for all the witnesses and what they clam to of seen. but the fact the front wall was still standing and after the impact and collapsed later leaves me to question it. My point with the Pentagon has always been why can't we see some clear footage? Why release footage that isn't clear? This should of been the easiest of the footage to debunk but the Government has not. I can't think of any crime where video footage of the crime is not supplied no mater how many witness there are. If I attacked someone in a busy nightclub, I'm sure video footage with be used as evidence in my trial.

[runningman]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

http://www.absconsulting.com/news/latimes.pdf

"It's quite a famous structural system," said Fenves. "It's very well-designed."
Steel buildings in general are known for their strength. Even less well-designed steel
buildings survived the 1906 earthquake in San Francisco and the 1933 Long Beach
quake, Youssef said.

When they were built in 1970, the World Trade Center towers were the world's
tallest buildings. But the strength designed to withstand wind was no match for the
fireball of an exploding plane. "We didn't have any terrorism in mind when the
buildings originally went up," Hooper said.

While engineers are exploring ways to "bomb-proof" buildings to protect occupants
from flying glass and crumbling walls, it is considered too costly and not socially
desirable to attempt to protect buildings from the type of attack that occurred
Tuesday.

"We'd be living in bunkers," Youssef said. "We cannot turn the country into
bunkers."

I like how they said bomb proof..

Glass falling and hitting the ground? The firefighter on the 82nd floor wouldn't have heard it. Also I think you should give firefighters more credit. They are very well trained on many matters. Blasting and fire are some of them.

Also the building was made to absorb multiple plane crashes..

Tower Could Sustain Multiple Plane Impacts'


January 25, 2001: WTC Construction Manager Says Tower Could Sustain Multiple Plane Impacts



Frank De Martini. [Source: New York Times]Frank De Martini, an architect who works as the World Trade Center’s construction manager, is interviewed for a History Channel documentary about the WTC towers. He says, “I believe the building probably could sustain multiple impacts of jetliners because this structure is like the mosquito netting on your screen door, this intense grid, and the jet plane is just a pencil puncturing the screen netting. It really does nothing to the screen netting.” [Dwyer and Flynn, 2005, pp. 149] De Martini will be in his office on the 88th floor of the North Tower when it is hit on 9/11. He will die when the tower collapses, after helping more than 50 people escape. [Associated Press, 8/29/2003; New York Times, 8/29/2003]