you know what's astonishing?

[Miroslav]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

That is one very square shaped hole. That must of been one of them now I'm square, now I'm round aeroplane fuselage's that have the folding wings and tails that don't damage the walls on the way in?[/YOUTUBE]

*sigh* that's not really the hole... you can't even see most of the hole in that picture because the fire trucks are spraying foam right in front of it. If you went and googled enough pictures from various angles, you would get a much better view of where the plane body came in.

No I'm not going to deny any of them. But I am going to question every one of them.

Yeah, sure. And by "question", you mean "deny / ignore in favor of your conspiracy theory".

Runningman, regarding where the engines and other parts went, it's all in the big post I just made - point 4 or 5 - but I highly doubt you'll ever take a serious look anyways.


But as of now I'm through with this debate, because it really is pointless with you two. I mean, seriously...

We've got runningman, who seriously believes reasoning like: Steven Jones' tests after the fact proves a ridiculous proposition that molten steel was coming out of the towers while it was still standing, and that this constitutes a "proven fact" I'm surprised you haven't yet claimed that Mossad and the KGB was in on this.

And then chunky, who will happily ignore 99% of diverse, detailed evidence that clearly suggests A and centralize a big counter-theory for B on the 1% that no one will ever be able to fully explain...

...so what's the point? I'm convinced there is NOTHING I or anyone could EVER say or show you that could possibly convince you of anything other than what you believe right now.

It's a part of a wheel of a 757? "Well, that clearly must have been planted!"

The hole shows no wings? "Well, never mind that it's an exit hole for the debris and not an entry hole; we'll focus on the wing argument again."

There are people who saw it and DNA analysis from it and calls from passengers on the plane? "Well, they're all in on the conspiracy, you see!"


As I said at the beginning, this is more about a dogmatic religion than a realistic and objective view at reality, and there is obviously no changing that... but at least I'm going to stop wasting my time. Peace out, have fun.

[chunky]

Re: you know what's astonishing?



WOW thats a great picture. Looks like they could park that fire truck in there. Did the 2 engines go in through the round or the square window, or did they fold in with the wings and go through the square door?

edit this is an english joke that other people mite not get.

[runningman]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

whatever Slava you'll be back..

Again there is no evidence that we can provide that will take your Captain America hat off.

Again

The Owner of building 7 said it was Demo
Where is the plane from the Pentagon?
Where is the plane from United 93 in Pennsylvania?
Why was it scattered all over the place over 3-4 miles? Another fall apart plane like Air France?

Funny how it was Ben Sliney, the chief of air traffic control's first day on the job and then he actually starred in the movie. He ordered all the planes down accept Osama Bin Ladens family. They were allowed to leave.

[chunky]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

As I said at the beginning, this is more about a dogmatic religion than a realistic and objective view at reality, and there is obviously no changing that... but at least I'm going to stop wasting my time. Peace out, have fun.

You still never got back to me on the Bush quote !

[Miroslav]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

You still never got back to me on the Bush quote !

ok fine, since I said I would, I will make a final comment on that video.

I just watched the full 8 minutes or so of it. And I fully admit that I can't explain his behavior, his decision to stay in the classroom, or what or how he saw what he said he saw on TV before he entered the classroom. I can only hypothesize that by saying "I saw the first plane hit", he did not truly see it hit but only saw news headlines about the fact that a plane had hit and maybe an image of the smoke or something..but I really dunno.

I have to admit that when I received news of the first plane hitting, I thought that it must also have been a horrible accident, and I wasn't truly aware at that point of the size of the aircraft (details were not quite so clear early on). It wasn't until the second plane hit that everyone really freaked out and started to realize that this could be no accident - that's when the entire office stopped working for the day and I remember us all around the TVs in the breakrooms. So again, I dunno...just a hypothesis. I certainly would have expected him to have been better informed and take action more quickly. But then again, this is the same guy who presided over the government when Katrina happened.

But for all I know, maybe he really is lying. It wouldn't be the first time Bush lied. I've long said from early on in this thread that a conspiracy theory I could see as plausible is that the government orchestrated for these planes to be flown into these different buildings. But that's not what you and everyone else in the conspiracy camp claims. In classic conspiracy mode, you take this one inconsistency and use it to create this elaborate, sensationalist setup that includes thermite, demolitions, no planes hitting at all, passenger planes hitting with bombs, cruise missiles, no planes hitting the Pentagon...all manner of crazy, fantastic stuff that takes much bigger leaps of faith to believe than what the evidence suggests.

So I can't explain Bush's comments, and I won't defend him (I didn't like him as president). Hell, I can't explain a bunch of things and no one ever will be able to do so. But I'm not going to leap from there to all of these claims about no planes hitting the buildings, etc. when the aggregate evidence clearly suggests that they did.

Not that any of these comments of mine matter... I'm sure you'll keep believing whatever you've set in your mind. Same with runningman, who apparently hasn't been told that when big planes laden with gas slam into the ground at very high speed, they tend to explode and break into little pieces and burn instead of staying together in one piece.

But anyways... now I really am out of here. We could keep going on like this until the end of time and we all know how that it would be pointless. See ya in another (hopefully) unrelated thread!

[floridaorange]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

^Right, the astonishment stems from the fact that internationals view these conspiracy theorists movies marketed as documentaries, and sweetened with dramatic music, etc, and next thing you know, they all buy into it as the only other logical explanation, even years after the fact.

My assumption was that most educated individuals would not only know better than to buy into youtube movies, and by now would have seen and heard enough logical and factual evidence that they would understand what physically took place on Sept. 11th.

The verdict is still out though on why/how/who...but not what.

[runningman]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

ah back to the educated people stuff. Whatever makes you feel better.

[bobjuice]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

the fact that internationals view these conspiracy theorists movies marketed as documentaries

What do you mean by that??

[floridaorange]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

^You're right that statement was too broad. What I meant was that the conversations I have had with people from other countries like germany and italy is that to them it's common sense that 9/11 was setup by our gov't here in the states based on youtube movies they had seen. That just blew me away to hear, which is what prompted this thread to begin with.

RM, the individuals I had spoken with had or were working on their masters (equivalent to a Masters in the US.) Besides, you're obv someone that educates themselves before forming an opinion, why act surprised?

[PROG]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

Two passengers on the plane - Rene May and Barbara Olsen - even called their family members telling them the plane had been hijacked.


the Olsons also worked for Bush in the past...don't know about the other person. but yah, out of all those people in the airplane only 2 called....hmmmm

[Miroslav]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

^^

[runningman]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

well you have to admit that the average European is much smarter then the average American. So for them to see it as common knowledge maybe they are on to something.

[yesme]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

there seems to be some confusion on here about what constitutes evidence and common sense.

now bare with my bad spelling and grammar.

1. while i will not offer a theory on what happened that day, i will tell you what DID NOT happen that day.
a. no raging inferno
b. the laws of physics were not broke(with the governments theory, two laws of physics are broken)
c. a 60 year old cab driver(even with the help of mystery man)did not lift a 250 lb pole out his front windshield, and not scratch his hood.



the government report that is there(nist report just leads up to the start of the collapse, they don't try to explain collapse.)has no evidence to support it's theory at all.

they have even refused releasing their data on the models, so independent researchers could double check their findings.

this only is unheard of in the world of science.

[Miroslav]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

Guys, I have thought this over and I've come back to tell you that I have seen the light. What a fool I was.

There were no planes on 9-11, no infernos, and no fallen buildings. What actually happened was that nefarious infiltrators with invisibility rays came and made the buildings disappear - and while they did that, they were simultaneously clever enough to cloak the towers with a mirage impression of burning rubble. The buildings are actually still there, but they are invisible. If you go too close to the area, you will bonk your head against them (ouch! be careful!).

Why did they do this? My sources tell me that it was actually an effort to turn them into lookout towers for the enemy, so that they can observe us in secrecy.

Who is this nefarious foe? I'm not completely sure on that one, but my sources tell me that it was probably Mossad.

Rejoice with me, my bretheren conspiracy investigators! I was blind, but now I SEE the TRUTH. Thank you all for your poignant remarks, your keen insight, and your unparalleled and intelligent arguments. I am a changed man.

I have to go clean my tin foil hat now. You do not see me. These are not the droids you seek. We never had this conversation.

[chunky]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

See I knew he would come round