you know what's astonishing?

[yesme]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

miro and florida, here is the thing, i'm willing to go thru the whole thing with you and debunk the governments line on everything that day.

but

1. dont assume that because some 9-11 researcher believes in one thing, that i do as well.

2. i wont get into any theory of what happened or who did it, most people have a hard enough time believing the government is lying to us.


3. i will be happy to have YOU leave this thread wanting a new investigation, but you have to be willing to go thru the information.

i will do this all, with only government reports/sites, and with any 9-11 conspriacy debunking sites/links that you can think of.

no one took the offer eh?

telling.

[floridaorange]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

^By all means, please do. I am sure plenty of members would derive a great deal of value in your findings. If I don't respond as quickly as of late, it's because I'm busy preparing for a week long business trip that starts this Sat.

[Miroslav]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

no one took the offer eh?

telling.

go for it...why not? it's not like we have anything better to do around here.

[PROG]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

nobody mentioned the numerous training exercises before 9/11. guess what it was about? planes flying into buildings. this is also a fact. there's pictures of it but can't find it at the moment.

[Miroslav]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

^^ Also, if you rearrange the letters of the word "training", guess what you get? ANTI RING.

Thus showing WITH 100% CERTAINTY that any such exercises were intended "against" the "rings" of the Pentagon!

Also, do you know what else has rings? SATURN. And did you know they have rings named A-G? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rings_of_Saturn

Saturn was clearly in on this.

Coincidence or devilishly clever plot? I dunno..........YOU DECIDE!

*DUUUUM DA DUM DUM*

[chunky]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

I've got ring, I got left out

[yesme]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

first a couple of questions.

1. do you know about the missing 2.3 trillion?

2. do you know where in the pentagon they kept those files?

3. do you know who john o'neil is?

4. how much mass ended up outside the fottprint of the towers would you say?

5. did the upper block get pulverized in mid air, or did it stay intact until hitting the bottom.

6. do you understand conservation of momentium? how about path of least resistence?

thanks guys.

[Miroslav]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

first a couple of questions.

1. do you know about the missing 2.3 trillion?

2. do you know where in the pentagon they kept those files?

3. do you know who john o'neil is?

4. how much mass ended up outside the fottprint of the towers would you say?

5. did the upper block get pulverized in mid air, or did it stay intact until hitting the bottom.

6. do you understand conservation of momentium? how about path of least resistence?

thanks guys.

I know the missing $2.3 trillion is a passage taken out of context from a Dick Cheney speech the day before 9-11, and it has been misconstrued to make it sound like he embezzeled the money.

I know who John O'Neil was.

And I know a bit about the basics of physics, but I'm not a physicist. I think I may have Googled some of those physics arguments in the past.

Proceed with your argument and evidence.

[yesme]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

I know the missing $2.3 trillion is a passage taken out of context from a Dick Cheney speech the day before 9-11, and it has been misconstrued to make it sound like he embezzeled the money.

it was rummy, and we all should know this was a long process, and not a r or d thing. everyone swindled us here.

point being this very inexperenced pilot made a very hard turn to hit a bunch of files and accountants looking for that 2.3 trillion. instead of taking a nice, easy direct path right in.

I know who John O'Neil was.

the one guy america would of believed when he said bin laden would not of done this, correct?

And I know a bit about the basics of physics, but I'm not a physicist. I think I may have Googled some of those physics arguments in the past.

hey me either, but i'm a guy that learns as he goes you know? i have been looking into this things since this has happened.

Proceed with your argument and evidence.

i wont be presenting an argument, i will be debunking the nist and 9-11 commission report.


first, do we all understand that the nist report fails to explain the collapse of the towers fully? it only covers up to the start of collapse, and then assumes global collapse cause they could not get their models to work.

From a letter dated 9/27/07.
From Catherine S. Fletcher - Chief, Management and Organization Division
NIST

"NIST did not test for explosive residue and such tests would not necessarily have been conclusive."

"As we mentioned previously, we are unable to provide a full explanation of the total collapse."

"While NIST did not find evidence that any of the recovered core columns experienced temperatures in excess of 250 C, it is not possible to extrapolate from such a small sample size to state that none of the core columns on the fire affected floors reached temperatures in excess of 250C."

[floridaorange]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

The towers falling (both of them) were certainly shocking to see!

So a pilot hit the WTC to destroy files?

[yesme]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

The towers falling (both of them) were certainly shocking to see!

So a pilot hit the WTC to destroy files?

no that was the pentagon that had files in the impact zone.

[floridaorange]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

i mistyped that one, meant pentagon.

[Miroslav]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

it was rummy, and we all should know this was a long process, and not a r or d thing. everyone swindled us here.

point being this very inexperenced pilot made a very hard turn to hit a bunch of files and accountants looking for that 2.3 trillion. instead of taking a nice, easy direct path right in.

This strikes me as pointless conjecture... If these are the arguments you're going to make for the Pentagon, then we're not going to get very far.

Here is Rummy's speech: http://www.defenselink.mil/speeches/...x?speechid=430

It does not offer any shocking admission that he "stole" $2.3 trillion dollars. He just makes the point that technology in the military has to be upgraded and gives an example of the financial systems used. His point was that the lack of technological efficiency in the military was a waste to the taxpayers:

The technology revolution has transformed organizations across the private sector, but not ours, not fully, not yet. We are, as they say, tangled in our anchor chain. Our financial systems are decades old. According to some estimates, we cannot track $2.3 trillion in transactions. We cannot share information from floor to floor in this building because it's stored on dozens of technological systems that are inaccessible or incompatible.

We maintain 20 to 25 percent more base infrastructure than we need to support our forces, at an annual waste to taxpayers of some $3 billion to $4 billion. Fully half of our resources go to infrastructure and overhead, and in addition to draining resources from warfighting, these costly and outdated systems, procedures and programs stifle innovation as well. A new idea must often survive the gauntlet of some 17 levels of bureaucracy to make it from a line officer's to my desk. I have too much respect for a line officer to believe that we need 17 layers between us.

This is not some admission that he has stolen money. And you can bet your ass that with the inefficiency and sheer size of government, there are many other billions that the government probably couldn't track in many other sectors as well; that's basically "normal". I would be that the government has these sorts of accounting issues all the timebably - just pick your agency, and you'll probably discover that it's a mess, and no one is getting murdered over it. Keep in mind that this is not REAL MONEY, like a bunch of gold bars sitting in a vault; it's basically all credit on computer systems. Didn't you know that the government can basically print its own money?

Also, the 2001 defense budget was many magnitudes smaller than $2.3 trillion. Even if Rummy had skimmed every penny he could off of that, there is no way that he could have embezzeled $2.3 trillion.

And do you really think that there would be no better, easier way for the government to cover up accounting issues than to fire cruise missiles or something into their own buildings?

the one guy america would of believed when he said bin laden would not of done this, correct?

So now you're suggesting to me that they had to blow up TWO of the biggest skyscrapers in the country in order to take out ONE SINGLE GUY? They couldn't just have arranged for someone to kill him or for an accident to happen to his car brakes or something?

Also, that is a huge conjecture that "America would have believed him" if he had said that.

And I thought you weren't going to be feeding me all of these crazy unsubstantiated, hollywood-style "coincidence - I think not" theories on WHY it happened. Now it seems that this is all you're doing. Really?

first, do we all understand that the nist report fails to explain the collapse of the towers fully? it only covers up to the start of collapse, and then assumes global collapse cause they could not get their models to work.

Of course it doesn't. I would bet that NOBODY on the planet can "fully explain" the collapse of the towers.

Sounds like you're going to argue that none of the temperatures in the fire could have gone above 250C?

[bobjuice]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

this thread is astonishing

[Lorn]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

this thread is astonishing

hehe...agreed.