you know what's astonishing?

[floridaorange]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

^wrong thread?

[Miroslav]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

I don't know where you got the cruse missile from Miro, but had the pentagon been hit by a cruise missile I would imagine there would be a lot more damage.

It's another common conspiracy theory that has spread all over since the claim is that it wasn't a plane. So since you claim there was no plane, what's your explanation for what happened there? Was it another "controlled demolition"?

one of the main give aways against the pentagon tail, is the story of floyd banks, cab driver.

First of all, the Pentagon does not have a tail. But anyways...

So the cab driver who couldn't remember what the hell exactly happened to his car and then supposedly later implicitly "confessed" to being a special operative in the 9-11 planned government attack (I saw those Youtube videos)... that's the "main give away" to "the Pentagon tail" that outweighs all of this evidence:

(1) hundreds of other witnesses who say they saw a plane come in and impact,
(2) phone calls from the plane prior to impact,
(3) detailed evidence of 757 plane components in the wreckage, and
(4) DNA confirmation of the passengers' remaines all throughout the wreckage area?

Are you serious?

You really think that the US government, with all of its sophistication and connections, needs to involve some common cab driver (particularly one who is far from the sharpest tool in the shed) as a secret operative in order to make 9-11 work?? What in the hell would they need him for? You really think the government would need his cab to drive by just as the plane flew in and get his winshield busted up (but not the hood, government forgot that part! lolz) as a part of their secret plot? That's probably the stupidest premise I've ever heard of.

Miro Toasty Florida you give your gov't to much credit that they are good and honest people when we see how fucked up their personal lives are. Not to mention how crooked they are either. It always comes down to making money.. That's it.

I don't think they are good and honest people. But I'm not going to swallow every bullshit wive's tale that sounds like an exciting B-rated Hollywood action movie.

I fully admit that there are things I can't explain in the events of that day, but the enormous conclusions you guys jump to - oftentimes on complete misunderstandings of statements, misleading pictures, downright false pictures, and crappy reasoning - are just unacceptable to me. This Lloyd England story is a classic example of that.

[chunky]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

What about the eyewitnesses who saw a very low flying plane fly over and away from the Pentagon after the explosion.

[chunky]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

Funny thing with that zeitgeist movie I gave it to a work colleague who was interested in it after I mentioned this thread at work. He enjoyed it that much he burnt a few copies off and it has been circulating quicker than the swine flu.

[Miroslav]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

hey chunky did you see the lloyd england interview at the end of that link I posted?? he admits that he was in on it!!! That "his life has changed because of it." He got paid off. Just watch the last 20 mins of it if you don't have the time.

See, this is what I'm talking about as far as patently ridiculous reasoning. This is beyond anything that even remotely makes rational sense.

You people reason like this, and then you expect people to take you seriously on your other "theories"?

I can understand the point of arguing certain things about the physics of the WTC building collapses, but I can't believe you guys would take shit like this seriously... it suggests that you'll believe anything.

[runningman]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

See, this is what I'm talking about as far as patently ridiculous reasoning. This is beyond anything that even remotely makes rational sense.

You people reason like this, and then you expect people to take you seriously on your other "theories"?

I can understand the point of arguing certain things about the physics of the WTC building collapses, but I can't believe you guys would take shit like this seriously... it suggests that you'll believe anything.

Coming from someone who only believes in the loud speakers, that isn't saying much..

Do you believe that people on earth have ever been paid off to keep their mouth shut? And that they would be getting paid because it was very sensitive information (ie. about someones death..etc)? Well why is that so hard to believe in this situation? Have you ever dealt with the mafia? Or heard stories about getting people to keep their mouth shut?

All of your sources are establishment based. Ours are independant. You can't recreate the situation and we can. Case closed.

[Miroslav]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

Hey chunky, look at all of this "inconsistency" in the eyewitness reports. Keep in mind that this is surely not a complete list. There will always be some contradicting reports when you poll a lot of people about a traumatic event that occurred very fast (like the guy who called it a turboprop), but only you nutty people would deny all of this in favor of some hare-brained story about an inside plot involving one cab driver.

Washington Boulevard, Columbia Pike, and I-395

Gary Bauer, “I was in a massive traffic jam, hadn’t moved more than a hundred yards in twenty minutes. My office called to tell me about the first plane in New York, the reaction was ‘horrible accident.’ And then they called about the second plane, and clearly that meant something much worse was going on. It was only then that I really noticed where I was in that traffic jam. I was going past the Pentagon, really inching a yard or so every couple of minutes. I had just passed the closest place the Pentagon is to the exit on 395 . . . when all of a sudden I heard the roar of a jet engine. “I looked at the woman sitting in the car next to me. She had this startled look on her face. We were all thinking the same thing. We looked out the front of our windows to try to see the plane, and it wasn’t until a few seconds later that we realized the jet was coming up behind us on that major highway. And it veered to the right into the Pentagon. The blast literally rocked all of our cars. It was an incredible moment.[1]

Richard Benedetto was in his car on his way to work, stuck in traffic just outside the Pentagon. He was listening -- in horror -- to an account of what had just happened at the World Trade Center in New York. "Then the plane flew right over my head. I said to myself, boy, that plane is going awfully fast," Benedetto said. "That plane is going to crash." The jet knocked over several light posts before it smashed into the Pentagon. Other observers said it seemed to come in full throttle with no attempt to slow down. "The noise was like an artillery shell, not an explosion like a bomb," Benedetto said. Then he saw a giant billow of smoke followed by a huge fireball, presumably the exploding fuel from the crashed plane. "You couldn't even see the building because there was so much smoke," said Benedetto. The sight was shocking and chilling, even for a veteran reporter. "You don't hand in your humanity when you get a press pass," he said.[2]

Donald R. Bouchoux "I was driving down Washington Boulevard (Route 27) along the side of the Pentagon when the aircraft crossed about 200 yards in front of me and impacted the side of the building. There was an enormous fireball, followed about two seconds later by debris raining down. The car moved about a foot to the right when the shock wave hit. I had what must have been an emergency oxygen bottle from the airplane go flying down across the front of my Explorer and then a second piece of jagged metal come down on the right side of the car."[3]

Omar Campo, a Salvadorean, was cutting the grass on the other side of the road when the plane flew over his head. "It was a passenger plane. I think an American Airways plane," Mr Campo said. "I was cutting the grass and it came in screaming over my head. I felt the impact. The whole ground shook and the whole area was full of fire. I could never imagine I would see anything like that here."[4]

Daryl Donley, saw the crash as he was driving on Washington Boulevard. Among debris that was scattered as the plane crashed, he found a "scorched green oxygen tank marked 'Cabin air. Airline use'" on the road.[5] Mr. Donley also had a camera with him, and took some of the first photographs after the crash.[6]

Penny Elgas exited I-395 and came on to Washington Boulevard, heading towards the Memorial Bridge. She was "stuck in late morning rush hour traffic, almost in front of the Pentagon. Traffic was at a standstill. I heard a rumble, looked out my driver's side window and realized that I was looking at the nose of an airplane coming straight at us from over the road (Columbia Pike) that runs perpendicular to the road I was on. The plane just appeared there- very low in the air, to the side of (and not much above) the CITGO gas station that I never knew was there. My first thought was “Oh My God, this must be World War III!” In that split second, my brain flooded with adrenaline and I watched everything play out in ultra slow motion, I saw the plane coming in slow motion toward my car and then it banked in the slightest turn in front of me, toward the heliport. In the nano-second that the plane was directly over the cars in front of my car, the plane seemed to be not more than 80 feet off the ground and about 4-5 car lengths in front of me. It was far enough in front of me that I saw the end of the wing closest to me and the underside of the other wing as that other wing rocked slightly toward the ground. I remember recognizing it as an American Airlines plane -- I could see the windows and the color stripes. And I remember thinking that it was just like planes in which I had flown many times but at that point it never occurred to me that this might be a plane with passengers. In my adrenaline-filled state of mind, I was overcome by my visual senses. The day had started out beautiful and sunny and I had driven to work with my car's sunroof open. I believe that I may have also had one or more car windows open because the traffic wasn't moving anyway. At the second that I saw the plane, my visual senses took over completely and I did not hear or feel anything -- not the roar of the plane, or wind force, or impact sounds. The plane seemed to be floating as if it were a paper glider and I watched in horror as it gently rocked and slowly glided straight into the Pentagon. At the point where the fuselage hit the wall, it seemed to simply melt into the building. I saw a smoke ring surround the fuselage as it made contact with the wall. It appeared as a smoke ring that encircled the fuselage at the point of contact and it seemed to be several feet thick. I later realized that it was probably the rubble of churning bits of the plane and concrete. The churning smoke ring started at the top of the fuselage and simultaneously wrapped down both the right and left sides of the fuselage to the underside, where the coiling rings crossed over each other and then coiled back up to the top. Then it started over again -- only this next time, I also saw fire, glowing fire in the smoke ring. At that point, the wings disappeared into the Pentagon. And then I saw an explosion and watched the tail of the plane slip into the building. It was here that I closed my eyes for a moment and when I looked back, the entire area was awash in thick black smoke."[7] (read more... See photos)

Fred Gaskins recounted "(The jet) was flying fast and low and the Pentagon was the obvious target," he said , who was driving to his job as a national editor at USA TODAY near the Pentagon when the jet passed about 150 feet overhead. "It was flying very smoothly and calmly, without any hint that anything was wrong."[8]

Afework Hagos, a computer programmer, was on his way to work but stuck in a traffic jam on Columbia Pike near the Pentagon when the plane flew over. "There was a huge screaming noise and I got out of the car as the plane came over. Everybody was running away in different directions. It was tilting its wings up and down like it was trying to balance. It hit some lampposts on the way in."[4]

Asework Hagos, 26, of Arlington, was driving on Columbia Pike on his way to work as a consultant for Nextel. He saw a plane flying very low and close to nearby buildings. "I thought something was coming down on me. I know this plane is going to crash. I've never seen a plane like this so low." He said he looked at it and saw American Airline insignia and when it made impact with the Pentagon initially he saw smoke, then flames.[9]

Eugenio Hernandez, APTN - Latin American Desk, "I was in my Jeep Cherokee, driving on Route 395 toward DC and listening to NPR. I saw the plane coming down. I didn't have a camera with me. On the left shoulder, I saw this tourist with a video camera. The man was with his wife and son. They were from southern Virginia. He was freaked out completely. He was not recording anything. The camera was facing the ground. I jumped out of my car, pulled out one of my business cards, and handed it to him. 'I work for a news agency. Please could I borrow your camera?' I explained, 'I'm sure you will be rewarded.' He handed me the camera, and I went across the road. No one stopped me. I was holding my press badge on top of the camera while I was recording; I walked as close as possible. I was maybe 300 feet from the impact."[10]

Aydan Kizildrgli, an English language student who is a native of Turkey, saw the jetliner bank slightly then strike a western wall of the huge five-sided building that is the headquarters of the nation's military. "There was a big boom," he said. "Everybody was in shock. I turned around to the car behind me and yelled 'Did you see that?' Nobody could believe it."[8]

Mary Lyman, who was on I-395, saw the airplane pass over at a "steep angle toward the ground and going fast" and then saw the cloud of smoke from the Pentagon.[11]

David Marra had turned his BMW off an I-395 exit to the highway just west of the Pentagon when he saw an American Airlines jet swooping in, its wings wobbly, looking like it was going to slam right into the Pentagon: "It was 50 ft. off the deck when he came in. It sounded like the pilot had the throttle completely floored. The plane rolled left and then rolled right. Then he caught an edge of his wing on the ground." There is a helicopter pad right in front of the side of the Pentagon. The wing touched there, then the plane cartwheeled into the building.[12]

Father Stephen McGraw was driving to a graveside service at Arlington National Cemetery the morning of Sept. 11, when he mistakenly took the Pentagon exit onto Washington Boulevard, putting him in a position to witness American Airlines Flight 77 crash into the Pentagon. "The traffic was very slow moving, and at one point just about at a standstill," said McGraw, a Catholic priest at St. Anthony Parish in Falls Church. "I was in the left hand lane with my windows closed. I did not hear anything at all until the plane was just right above our cars." McGraw estimates that the plane passed about 20 feet over his car, as he waited in the left hand lane of the road, on the side closest to the Pentagon. "The plane clipped the top of a light pole just before it got to us, injuring a taxi driver, whose taxi was just a few feet away from my car. "I saw it crash into the building," he said. "My only memories really were that it looked like a plane coming in for a landing. I mean in the sense that it was controlled and sort of straight. That was my impression," he said. "I hadn't heard about the World Trade Center at that point, and so I was thinking this was an accident. I figured it was just an accident. "There was an explosion and a loud noise and I felt the impact. I remember seeing a fireball come out of two windows (of the Pentagon). I saw an explosion of fire billowing through those two windows.[13]

Kirk Milburn, a construction supervisor for Atlantis Co., who was on the Arlington National Cemetery exit of Interstate 395 when he said he saw the plane heading for the Pentagon. "I was right underneath the plane, I heard a plane. I saw it. I saw debris flying. I guess it was hitting light poles," said Milburn. "It was like a WHOOOSH whoosh, then there was fire and smoke, then I heard a second explosion." [9]

Christopher Munsey, who was en route to work on I-395, "Already dumbfounded by the first, sketchy radio reports of the catastrophic attack on the World Trade Center towers in New York, I couldn’t believe what I was now seeing to my right: A silver, twin-engine American Airlines jetliner gliding almost noiselessly over the Navy Annex, fast, low and straight toward the Pentagon, just hundreds of yards away. It was a nightmare coming to life. The plane, with red and blue markings, hurtled by and within moments exploded in a ground-shaking “whoomp,” as it appeared to hit the side of the Pentagon. A huge flash of orange flame and black smoke poured into the sky. Smoke seemed to change from black to white, forming a billowing column in the sky." [14]

John O’Keefe, managing editor of Influence, an American Lawyer Media publication, "I was going up Interstate 395, up Washington Boulevard, listening to the radio, to the news, to WTOP, and from my left side, I don’t know whether I saw or heard it first -- this silver plane; I immediately recognized it as an American Airlines jet, it came swooping in over the highway, over my left shoulder, straight across where my car was heading. I’d just heard them saying on the radio that National Airport was closing, and I thought, ‘That’s not going to make it to National Airport.’ And then I realized where I was, and that it was going to hit the Pentagon. There was a burst of orange flame that shot out that I could see through the highway overpass. Then it was just black. Just black thick smoke. The eeriest thing about it, was that it was like you were watching a movie. There was no huge explosion, no huge rumbling on ground, it just went ‘pfff.’ It wasn’t what I would have expected for a plane that was not much more than a football field away from me. The first thing I did was pull over onto the shoulder, and when I got out of the car I saw another plane flying over my head, and it scared ...me, because I knew there had been two planes that hit the World Trade Center. And I started jogging up the ramp to get as far away as possible. Then the plane -- it looked like a C-130 cargo plane -- started turning away from the Pentagon, it did a complete turnaround. There was nothing to see but black. The whole side of Washington Boulevard was black and on fire. I lost all sense of time. I think I was standing outside a good 20 minutes or so, and then, it was just 10 minutes until I got to the Memorial Bridge, which was closed, so I went up the GW Parkway and to a friend’s house."[15]

Mary Ann Owens, of Gannett News Service, was stuck in traffic near the Pentagon, when she saw the airplane pass 50 to 75 feet overhead and crash into the Pentagon.[5]

Christine Peterson, "I was at a complete stop on the road in front of the helipad at the Pentagon; what I had thought would be a shortcut was as slow as the other routes I had taken that morning. I looked idly out my window to the left -- and saw a plane flying so low I said, 'holy cow, that plane is going to hit my car' (not my actual words). The car shook as the plane flew over. It was so close that I could read the numbers under the wing. And then the plane crashed. My mind could not comprehend what had happened. Where did the plane go? For some reason I expected it to bounce off the Pentagon wall in pieces. But there was no plane visible, only huge billows of smoke and torrents of fire. Now I wanted to get as far away as I could, but that was impossible. The people around me had gotten out of their cars. At least half had cameras and the others were on their cell phones. I experienced a moment of irrelevant amazement that so many people had cameras in their cars. A few minutes later a second, much smaller explosion got the attention of the police arriving on the scene. They began ordering people back into their cars and away."[16]

Alfred S. Regnery, travelling on I-395, "As I approached the Pentagon, which was still not quite in view, listening on the radio to the first reports about the World Trade Center disaster in New York, a jetliner, apparently at full throttle and not more than a couple of hundred yards above the ground, screamed overhead. Although airplanes regularly fly over the Pentagon on their way to Reagan National Airport, just a mile or two south, this plane was too low and going too fast. As I watched it disappear behind bridges and concrete barriers I knew it was about to crash... Seconds before the Pentagon came into view a huge black cloud of smoke rose above the road ahead. I came around the bend and there was the Pentagon billowing smoke, flames and debris, blackened on one side and with a gaping hole where the airplane had hit it."[17]

Steve Riskus witnessed the plane crash into the Pentagon, as he was driving along Washington Boulevard and stopped to take photographs moments after the impact.[18]

Joel Sucherman, USAToday.com Editor, "saw it all: an American Airlines jetliner fly left to right across his field of vision as he commuted to work Tuesday morning. It was highly unusual. The large plane was 20 feet off the ground and a mere 50 to 75 yards from his windshield. Two seconds later and before he could see if the landing gear was down or any of the horror-struck faces inside, the plane slammed into the west wall of the Pentagon 100 yards away. My first thought was he's not going to make it across the river to [Reagan] National Airport. But whoever was flying the plane made no attempt to change direction," Sucherman said. "It was coming in at a high rate of speed, but not at a steep angle--almost like a heat-seeking missile was locked onto its target and staying dead on course." [19]

Jim Sutherland, on I-395, witnessed the plane pass 50 feet overhead, heading in a straight line into the Pentagon.[20]

Jim Sutherland, a mortgage broker, was driving near the Pentagon at 9:40 a.m. when he saw a 737 airplane 50 feet over Interstate 395 heading in a straight line into the side of the Pentagon. The fireball explosion that followed rocked his car. Drivers began pulling over to the side - some taking pictures - not quite believing what they were seeing.[21]

Henry Ticknor, intern minister at the Unitarian Universalist Church of Arlington, Virginia, was driving to church that Tuesday morning when American Airlines Flight 77 came in fast and low over his car and struck the Pentagon. "There was a puff of white smoke and then a huge billowing black cloud," he said.[22]

Clyde Vaughn, Brig. Gen. of the U.S. Army and director of military support, told reporters he was in his car on nearby Interstate 395 when the plane hit the Pentagon on Tuesday morning. Vaughn said "I was scanning the air" as he was sitting in his car. "There wasn't anything in the air, except for one airplane, and it looked like it was loitering over Georgetown, in a high, left-hand bank," he said. "That may have been the plane. I have never seen one on that (flight) pattern. A few minutes later, Vaughn witnessed the craft's impact. [23]

Mike Walter, USA Today reporter, while driving on Washington Boulevard, also witnessed the crash. He recounted to CNN, "...looked out my window. I saw this plane, the jet, American Airlines jet coming. And I thought, this doesn't add up. It's really low. And I saw it. It just went — I mean, it was like a cruise missile with wings, it went right there and slammed right into the Pentagon. Huge explosion."[24] (See video - Mike Walter debunks the conspiracy theorists)

Barbara (spoke to CNN at 10:20 a.m.):
Barbara - As we were driving into town on 395, there was an exit, we were trying to get off the exit for Memorial Bridge. Off to the lefthand side, there was a commercial plane that came in and was coming too fast too low and the next thing we saw was it go down low beside the road and we just saw the fire that came up after that
CNN - How large was the explosion?
Barbara - It was large.
CNN - Was there a sound, as well?
Barbara - Umm, that can't verify because the windows were up in the vehicle.
CNN - Was it clear to you what had happened?
Barbara - Yes, definitely.
CNN - So you believe it was a commercial airliner that was hitting the Pentagon?
Barbara - Yes, and I'm not sure exactly where it, the Pentagon was in relation to where the plane went down, but they are relatively close to one another, whether it hit any part of the Pentagon, I'm not sure.
CNN - How low was the plane?
Barbara - When it was coming down?
CNN - Yep.
Barbara - It was coming down on less than a 45 degree angle and coming down to where the side of the 395 and when it came down it just missed the 395 and went down below it and we saw the fire come up from it.
CNN - Were you able to see what kind of plane or what airline it belonged to?
Barbara - No, I did not see what kind of airliner. I just assumed that we were so close to the airport that it was coming in to land.
CNN - But it seemed awfully low to you?
Barbara - Yes. And fast.
CNN - How big was the fireball?
Barbara - Umm, I was spatially challenged at times, but it was pretty big.
CNN - What did you think was happening?
Barbara - Umm, I know that it hit the ground and exploded.
CNN - Were you frightened yourself?
Barbara - Yes, everybody stopped the cars and we all got out and so forth.
CNN - Thank you very much.
The Pentagon

David Battle, who worked at the Pentagon, was standing outside the building and just about to enter when the aircraft struck. "It was coming down head first," he said. "And when the impact hit, the cars and everything were just shaking."[25]

Maurice L. Bease, a Marine Sergeant, had worked around Marine aviation long enough to know what a fly-by was, and it sounded like one as he stood outside his office near the Pentagon on Sept. 11. Turning around expecting to see a fighter jet fly over, he saw only a split-second glimpse of a white commercial airliner streaking low toward the building, and him! He did not even have time to duck before it plowed into the side of the Pentagon around the corner and about 200 yards from where he stood. Immediately, a ball of flame shot up the side of the building, followed by smoke, lots of it.[26]

Mickey Bell, on-site foreman, had "just left the Singleton Electric trailer when he heard a loud noise. The next thing he recalled was picking himself off the floor, where he had been thrown by the blast. Bell, who had been less than 100 feet from the initial impact of the plane, was nearly struck by one of the plane´s wings as it sped by him. In shock, he got into his truck, which had been parked in the trailer compound, and sped away. The full impact of the closeness of the crash wasn´t realized until coworkers noticed damage to Bell´s work vehicle. He had plastic and rivets from an airplane imbedded in its sheet metal, but Bell had no idea what had happened. During Bell´s close call, other Singleton workers, including sub-foreman Greg Cobaugh, were doing other work on the first and third floors."[27] "We went out to look at his truck and the truckbed was filled with all kinds of debris that must have come from the blast. He's one really lucky guy," marvels Singleton.[28]

Sean Boger, worked at the Pentagon helipad air traffic control tower, which was between the building and the heliport. He was looking out the window and saw "the nose and the wing of the aircraft just like coming right at us, and he didn't veer... I am watching the plane go all the way into the building, " he stared as the Boeing 757 smacked into the building" less than 100 feet away.[29]

"I just looked up and I saw the big nose and the wings of the aircraft coming right at us and I just watched it hit the building," Air Traffic Controller and Pentagon tower chief Sean Boger said. "It exploded. I fell to the ground and covered my head. I could actually hear the metal going through the building."[30]

Mark Bright, a police officer at the Pentagon, saw the plane hit the building. He had been manning the guard booth at the Mall Entrance to the building. "I saw the plane at the Navy Annex area," he said. "I knew it was going to strike the building because it was very, very low -- at the height of the street lights. It knocked a couple down." The plane would have been seconds from impact -- the annex is only a few hundred yards from the Pentagon. He said he heard the plane "power-up" just before it struck the Pentagon. "As soon as it struck the building I just called in an attack, because I knew it couldn't be accidental," Bright said. He jumped into his police cruiser and headed to the area. [31]

Mike Dobbs, Marine Commander, who worked at the Pentagon, was on an upper level of the outer ring, looking out the window. He saw an American Airlines aircraft as it passed over the Navy Annex and hit the Pentagon.[20]

Lincoln Liebner, Army Captain, who was parking his car in the South Parking lot... "I saw this large American Airlines passenger jet coming in fast and low, My first thought was I've never seen one that high. Before it hit I realised what was happening."[32] He saw Flight 77 come in "full throttled, wheels up, a controlled flight."[33]

Frank Probst, an information management specialist for the Pentagon Renovation Program, "left his office trailer near the Pentagon's south parking lot at 9:36 a.m. Sept. 11. Walking north beside Route 27, he suddenly saw a commercial airliner crest the hilltop Navy Annex. American Airlines Flight 77 reached him so fast and flew so low that Probst dropped to the ground, fearing he'd lose his head to its right engine."[34]

Probst - At approximately 9:30 a.m. on September 11, he left the Wedge 1 construction site trailer, where he had been watching live television coverage of the second plane strike into the World Trade Center towers. He begna walking to the Modular Office Compound, which is located beyond the extreme north end of the Pentagon North Parking Lot, for a meeting at 10 a.m. As he approached the heliport, he noticed a plane flying low over the Annex and heading right for him. The aircraft pulled up, seemingly aiming for the first floor of the building, and leveled off. Probst hit the gorund and observed t right wing tip pass through the portable 750 kW generator tha provides backup power to Wedge 1. The right engine took out the chain-link fence and posts surrounding the generator. The left engine struck an external steam vault before the fuselage entred the building. As the fireball from the crash moved toward him, Probst ran toward the South Parking Lot and recalls falling down tice. Fine pieces of wing debris floated down about him. The diesel fuel for the portable generator ignited while he was running. He noted only fire and smoke within the building at the point of impact.[35]

Alan Wallace was one of three firefighters assigned to the Pentagon’s heliport. Along with crew members Mark Skipper and Dennis Young, Wallace arrived around 7:30 in the morning. After a quick breakfast, the 55-year-old firefighter moved the station’s firetruck out of the firehouse...He parked it perpendicular to the west wall of the Pentagon. Wallace and Skipper were walking along the right side of the truck (Young was in the station) when the two looked up and saw an airplane. It was about 25 feet off the ground and just 200 yards away—the length of two football fields. They had heard about the WTC disaster and had little doubt what was coming next. “Let’s go,” Wallace yelled. Both men ran. Wallace ran back toward the west side of the station, toward a nine-passenger Ford van. “My plans were to run until I caught on fire,” he says. He didn’t know how long he’d have or whether he could outrun the oncoming plane. Skipper ran north into an open field. Wallace hadn’t gotten far when the plane hit. “I hadn’t even reached the back of the van when I felt the fireball. I felt the blast,” he says. He hit the blacktop near the left rear tire of the van and quickly shimmied underneath. “I remember feeling pressure, a lot of heat,” he says. He crawled toward the front of the van, then emerged to see Skipper out in the field, still standing. “Everything is on fire. The grass is on fire. The building is on fire. The firehouse is on fire,” Wallace recalls. “There was fire everywhere. Areas of the blacktop were on fire.”[36] "I just happened to look up and see the plane," said Wallace. "It was about 200 yards away, and was coming in low and fast. I told Mark that we needed to get the hell out of there."[37]

Dennis Young, was inside the Pentagon's fire house facility. He'd been watching the reports of the terrorist attack on the World Trade Center on television when he heard a loud noise. Ceiling tiles lifted from the pressure as a ball of fire rolled through the station. The fire house was demolished but, other than twisting his ankle when he was trying to get out of the building, Young was unhurt. "I knew from past experience that it was a plane crash." said Young, who was one of the first to respond when a Canadian C-130 crashed near Fairbanks, Alaska in 1989.[37]

John J. Kirlin Inc. employee - For one employee with Wedge One's mechanical subcontractor John J. Kirlin Inc., Rockville MD, "lucky" is an understatement. "We had one guy who was standing, looking out the window and saw the plane when it was coming in. He was in front of one of the blast-resistant windows," says Kirlin President Wayne T. Day, who believes the window structure saved the man's life.[28]

Pentagon City

Terrance Kean, who lived in a nearby apartment building, heard the noise of loud jet engines, glanced out his window, and saw "very, very large passenger jet." He watched "it just plow right into the side of the Pentagon. The nose penetrated into the portico. And then it sort of disappeared, and there was fire and smoke everywhere."[38]

D. S. Khavkin "We live in Arlington, VA just outside of Washington, DC in a high-rise building on the eight floor. Our balcony faces the city, with a panoramic view of the Pentagon, National Airport, and the entire downtown area of Washington, DC. We were watching the events unfolding on TV in New York. Then, at about 9:40 am Eastern Daylight Time, my husband and I heard an aircraft directly overhead. At first, we thought it was the jets that sometimes fly overhead. However, it appeared to be a small commercial aircraft. The engine was at full throttle. First, the plane knocked down a number of street lamp poles, then headed directly for the Pentagon and crashed on the lawn near the west side the Pentagon. A huge fireball exploded with thick black smoke."[39]

Dave Winslow, AP reporter, who also witnessed the crash, recounted "I saw the tail of a large airliner. ... It plowed right into the Pentagon."[40] "I live in Pentagon City on the tenth floor of a 17-floor building that looks out at Washington. I've got a wall of windows stretching from one side to the other. I heard this enormous sound of turbulence. I said, "Oh, my God. I know what's happening." You'd have to stand next to a plane on the runway to hear it that loud. I knew it was another attack. As I turned to my right, I saw a jumbo tail go by me along Route 395. It was like the rear end of the fuselage was riding on 395. I just saw the tail go whoosh right past me. In a split second, you heard this boom. A combination of a crack and a thud. It rattled my windows. I thought they were going to blow out. Then came an enormous fireball. Only in the movies have I ever seen anything like that. It lasted one to three seconds max."[10]

Navy Annex and VDOT

Terry Morin, who worked at the nearby Navy Annex, [B]witnessed the airliner pass 100 feet overhead, moments before it crashed into the Pentagon.[/B][41]

Anonymous, from the Navy Annex. As I stood there, I instinctively ducked at the extremely loud roar and whine of a jet engine spooling up. Immediately, the large silver cylinder of an aircraft appeared in my window, coming over my right shoulder as I faced the Westside of the Pentagon directly towards the heliport. The aircraft, looking to be either a 757 or Airbus, seemed to come directly over the annex, as if it had been following Columbia Pike - an Arlington road leading to Pentagon. The aircraft was moving fast, at what I could only be estimate as between 250 to 300 knots. All in all, I probably only had the aircraft in my field of view for approximately 3 seconds. The aircraft was at a sharp downward angle of attack, on a direct course for the Pentagon. It was "clean", in as much as, there were no flaps applied and no apparent landing gear deployed. He was slightly left wing down as he appeared in my line of sight, as if he'd just "jinked" to avoid something. As he crossed Route 110 he appeared to level his wings, making a slight right wing slow adjustment as he impacted low on the Westside of the building to the right of the helo, tower and fire vehicle around corridor 5. [42]

R.E. Rabogliatti was in his office at the Navy Annex. He "peered out of his office window and saw the airliner looming over the building. Later, recalling its screaming engines he judged that the pilot must have pushed the jet's throttle to the limit; he estimated its altitude at less than 150 feet."[43]

Madelyn Zakhem, executive secretary at the STC, had just stepped outside for a break and was seated on a bench when she heard what she thought was a jet fighter directly overhead. It wasn't. It was an airliner coming straight up Columbia Pike at tree-top level. "It was huge! It was silver. It was low -- unbelievable! I could see the cockpit. I fell to the ground.... I was crying and scared."[44]

Sheraton

Deb Anlauf was in her 14th floor hotel room, "Suddenly I saw this plane right outside my window. You felt like you could touch it; it was that close. It was just incredible. Then it shot straight across from where we are and flew right into the Pentagon. It was just this huge fireball that crashed into the wall. When it hit, the whole hotel shook."[45]
Arlington Cemetery

Ron Turner, the Navy's deputy chief information officer, was standing solemnly at a funeral at Arlington National Cemetery when American Airlines Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon. "There was a huge fireball," he said, "followed by the [usual] black cloud of a fuel burn."[46]
Crystal City

Some workers at offices in nearby Crystal City also witnessed the crash.[11]

National Airport

Allen Cleveland, who was aboard Washington Metro heading to Ronald Reagan National Airport, "looked out the window to see a jet heading down toward the Pentagon."[47] "I was just pulling in on the subway station at national airport, I just happened to look over, actually my back was facing in the direction of the Pentagon, I looked to the right from the train, as we were coming into the station and I notice a jet flying in real low, about a mid-size passenger jet flying in, I know it was silver, that's the only thing I know, as it was coming in, I just realized that there was no landing strip on that side of the subway system, so I just happened to look and thought maybe it was just my mistake because the subway system kind of curves around a little bit, and the next thing I know there was a huge explosion there and everybody on the subway, one mouthed profanity, everybody on the subway turned around and looked and everyone went into total hysterics, women were crying, and people were just absolutely in disbelief."[48]

Meseidy Rodriguez, also on Metro, saw the plane. "I saw it as it was about to hit, I didn't see it coming in because he [Allen Cleveland] just caught my attention, he yelled and I looked up and I started seeing, basically it was , I just saw very little of it, all I could tell was it was like a mid-size plane and then it was gone and there was all this smoke, and it just caught me off guard I couldn't really tell, it just went straight for the building, straight for the Pentagon."[48]

Kate Agnew, a passenger on Washington Metro, also witnessed the explosion.[11]

George Washington Parkway

Mike Cahill, a Alexandria paramedic, was driving along the George Washington Parkway near the Pentagon, listening to radio reports about the World Trade Center attack, when he saw "a huge column of smoke" rising above the trees in front of him. Cahill stepped on the gas of his 1995 Subaru Impressa and arrived at the scene minutes later. He pulled his first-aid bag out of his trunk, hopped over a barrier and rushed toward the flames. Injured streamed from the building. "Everyone that was coming towards me had burns," he said . "Some of these guys still literally had smoke or steam coming off of their body or skin."[49]

Rossyln

Steve Anderson worked on the 19th floor of the USA Today building. "I witnessed the jet hit the Pentagon on September 11...as I was looking down at my desk, the plane caught my eye. It didn't register at first. I thought to myself that I couldn't believe the pilot was flying so low. Then it dawned on me what was about to happen. I watched in horror as the plane flew at treetop level, banked slightly to the left, drug it's wing along the ground and slammed into the west wall of the Pentagon exploding into a giant orange fireball. Then black smoke. Then white smoke."[50]
Elsewhere in Arlington

Daniel McAdams and his wife, Cynthia, said they were sitting in their kitchen drinking coffee in their third-floor condominium in Arlington just two miles from the Pentagon when they heard a plane fly directly overhead around 9:45 a.m. It was unusually loud and unusually low. Seconds later, they heard a big boom and felt the doors and windows of their three-storey building shake. From their window, they could see a plume of black smoke coming from the Pentagon.[51]

Across the Potomac

Captain Joseph Candelario, USA a first year student in the Family Nurse Practitioner Program began Tuesday, 11 September like most people. It was a clinical day, which meant getting up early and making the trip in to Ft. McNair to start seeing patients at 0630. He was first alerted that the day was drastically changing when one of the medics told him that a plane hit the World Trade Center. While watching the tower burn, another plane hit the second tower. Thinking that this was a very serious terrorist attack, I went outside to the river to take a break. As I was looking across the river towards the direction of the Pentagon, I noticed a large aircraft flying low towards the White House. This aircraft then made a sharp turn and flew towards the Pentagon and seconds later crashed into it.[52]

Ken Ford, a State Department employee, recounted looking from the 15th floor of the State Department Annex, over 1 1/2 miles away, "We were watching Reagan National Airport through binoculars a short distance away. The plane was a two-engine turbo prop that flew up the river from National. Then it turned back toward the Pentagon. We thought it had been waved off and then it hit the building."[53]

Steve Snaman, manager of the datacom division for Walker Seals, watched in horror from Fort McNair (across the river) as the jetliner came in low at full throttle, banked left and smashed into the wall of the Pentagon. "We saw the plane hit the Pentagon," Snaman said.[54]

Elsewhere in Arlington

Ralph Banton was on "a house porch a little more than a mile away." He heard a jet flying directly overhead, very low. "It sounded like it was jetting instead of slowing down," he said. Seconds later, Flight 77 crashed into the Pentagon.[55]

Other witnesses

Tim Timmerman, who is a pilot himself, noticed American Airlines markings on the aircraft as he saw it hit the Pentagon.[56] it had been an American Airways 757. "It added power on its way in," he said. "The nose hit, and the wings came forward and it went up in a fireball."[4] "I was looking out the window; I live on the 16th floor, overlooking the Pentagon, in a corner apartment, so I have quite a panorama. And being next to National Airport, I hear jets all the time, but this jet engine was way too loud. I looked out to the southwest, and it came right down 395, right over Colombia Pike, and as it went by the Sheraton Hotel, the pilot added power to the engines. I heard it pull up a little bit more, and then I lost it behind a building. And then it came out, and I saw it hit right in front of -- it didn't appear to crash into the building; most of the energy was dissipated in hitting the ground, but I saw the nose break up, I saw the wings fly forward, and then the conflagration engulfed everything in flames. It was horrible.[57]

CNN: What can you tell us about the plane itself?
Timmerman: It was a Boeing 757, American Airlines, no question.
CNN: You say that it was a Boeing, and you say it was a 757 or 767?
Timmerman: 7-5-7.
CNN: 757, which, of course.
Timmerman: American Airlines.
CNN: American Airlines, one of the new generation of jets.
Timmerman: Right. It was so close to me it was like looking out my window and looking at a helicopter. It was just right there.
Oscar Martinez, "I saw a big jet flying close to the building coming at full speed. There was a big noise when it hit the building."[58]

Paul Begala, Democratic Party consultant, was among others who witnessed the explosion at the Pentagon.[40]

Pam Bradley, "was on my way to work, in my car, sitting on a bridge, and saw the plane hit the Pentagon. I am in a complete state of shock."[59]

Aircraft debris

Carlton Burkhammer, a member of the Fairfax County Urban Search and Rescue Team... Early Friday morning, shortly before 4 a.m., Burkhammer and another firefighter, Brian Moravitz, were combing through debris near the impact site. Peering at the wreckage with their helmet lights, the two spotted an intact seat from the plane’s cockpit with a chunk of the floor still attached. Then they saw two odd-shaped dark boxes, about 1.5 by 2 feet long. They’d been told the plane’s “black boxes” would in fact be bright orange, but these were charred black. The boxes had handles on one end and one was torn open. They cordoned off the area and called for an FBI agent, who in turn called for someone from the National Transportation Safety Board who confirmed the find: the black boxes from American Airlines Flight 77. “We wanted to find live victims,” says Burkhammer. But this was a consolation prize. “Finding the black box gave us a little boost,” he says.[36]

John Damoose, a Travis City, Mich. native who was in a meeting said "everybody got nervous. .‚.‚. We didn't know whether to stay inside or go outside. The thing with terrorist attacks is that you don't know what is the next thing that will happen." Damoose said the worst part was leaving the Pentagon and walking along Fort Meyer Drive, a bike trail, "you could see pieces of the plane."[9]

Michael Defina, Captain of the National Airport's aircraft rescue firefighters (ARFF), "That afternoon, Captain Defina and airport Battalion Chief Walter Hood, as well as other jurisdictions' battalion chiefs, led crews inside with attack lines to fight fires on every floor of the "D" and "E" rings. The aircraft had penetrated all the way to the "C" ring. 'The only way you could tell that an aircraft was inside was that we saw pieces of the nose gear.'"[60]

Rich Fitzharris (electrical engineer and former residential contractor) was in the Modular Office Compound at the time of the crash and rushed to the site on foot, arriving before the partial collapse. He recalls that the building - near the are of impact - was in flames, and he remembers seeing small pieces of debris, the largest of which might have been part of an engine shroud.[35]

Jamie McIntyre, CNN reporter, "A short -- a while ago I walked right up next to the building, firefighters were still trying to put the blaze. The fire, by the way, is still burning in some parts of the Pentagon. And I took a look at the huge gaping hole that's in the side of the Pentagon in an area of the Pentagon that has been recently renovated, part of a multibillion dollar renovation program here at the Pentagon. I could see parts of the airplane that crashed into the building, very small pieces of the plane on the heliport outside the building. The biggest piece I saw was about three feet long, it was silver and had been painted green and red, but I could not see any identifying markings on the plane. I also saw a large piece of shattered glass. It appeared to be a cockpit windshield or other window from the plane."[61]

Anonymous - "There were pieces of aircraft spread all the way up the road, at least a third of a mile from the impact site." - a witness speaking to a local CBS reporter. [1]

Bodies

Captain Joseph Candelario and his medics joined a Search and Rescue team. Upon entering the impact site, the team conducted a search of the area, surrounding corridor 5 and 6. They were able to free a few people still trapped by debris. Unfortunately, as they continued the search, they found many body parts and around six burned corpses. Unable to proceed, the fire was too hot, they set up a rally point near the front of the aircraft and waited for the D.C.F.D. to put the fire out. What they did not know was that fire would burn for over a day. After waiting a few hours, they pulled back to the center courtyard and began to set up the morgue, remaining on site until 1930 hours.[62]

[runningman]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

well then there should be a new investiagtion with witnesses under oath right? So you finally agree then..

[Miroslav]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

well then there should be a new investiagtion with witnesses under oath right? So you finally agree then..

What the hell are you talking about? What does that even have to do with what I just posted?

There can be as many new investigations as you want - I don't care.

The point is that you guys are remarkably dense for thinking that all of the eyewitness accounts and other evidence was all just "made up" and that no plane hit the Pentagon.

What about the eyewitnesses who saw a very low flying plane fly over and away from the Pentagon after the explosion.

I don't know, maybe they're fucking morons. There are also lots of other planes in the area and there is a major airport just across the river, by the way.

But what about all of the multitudes of eyewitnesses who did see a plane crash into the Pentagon??

I certainly haven't seen many eyewitnesses back up planed flying low and away from the Pentagon after the explosion, not the way they all back up a plane hitting the Pentagon. And I've not seen any eyewitnesses say that something else hit the Pentagon.

So what exactly have you got on this one? Nothing, that's what.

I'd take your other arguments more seriously if you could demonstrate basic rational sense on this one point.

[Miroslav]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

double post. oops.

[runningman]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

No Miro you are retarded. To have to read your decrepit arguments why there shouldn't be an investiagtion is sad to say the least. Who wouldn't be for putting people under Oath and holding people accountable? I mean shit lets do it the old fashioned way!

[Miroslav]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

No Miro you are retarded. To have to read your decrepit arguments why there shouldn't be an investiagtion is sad to say the least. Who wouldn't be for putting people under Oath and holding people accountable? I mean shit lets do it the old fashioned way!

First of all, instead of running your mouth, maybe you should read what I just fucking wrote. I said that as far as I'm concerned, there can be as many investigations as you guys want. I don't give two shits about it.

Second of all, how convenient of you to not address any of the many consistent eyewitness accounts, the debris evidence, the phone calls from the airplane, or the DNA evidence of the passenger remains that contradicts your "no plane" theory and instead just call me names. Yeah, that makes you really look like a smart little boy.

Why don't you address any of those eyewitness accounts I just posted? This is so like you. Pathetic.

Just keep believing that the government needed to employ some cab driver helped blow up the Pentagon and that there was molten steel coming out of the WTC buildings while they were standing. I don't even need to respond to your name calling with more names for you because your own statements already do a great job of demonstrating your intellect and credibility.

[runningman]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

Nice edit.. oops double post..

Now your getting into propaganda I see. You said I was stupid in a previous post and edited it that was I said "No Miro--- your retarded." I was responding to your attack.. that you edited so you could post your last post.. good job.. sneaky sneaky..

[Miroslav]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

Nice edit.. oops double post..

Now your getting into propaganda I see. You said I was stupid in a previous post and edited it that was I said "No Miro--- your retarded." I was responding to your attack.. that you edited so you could post your last post.. good job.. sneaky sneaky..

I left everything I had to say to you in my posts up above for everyone to see. The double post occurred because I accidentally made a separate post for my last response to chunky, which I then moved into my post above (#309).

I have no interest in getting into a name calling match with you, so just drop it. I have nothing more to say to you on this.

[chunky]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

Hey chunky, look at all of this "inconsistency" in the eyewitness reports. Keep in mind that this is surely not a complete list. There will always be some contradicting reports when you poll a lot of people about a traumatic event that occurred very fast (like the guy who called it a turboprop), but only you nutty people would deny all of this in favor of some hare-brained story about an inside plot involving one cab driver.

I agree with you I wouldn't rely on anything Loyd England had to say, however like I said before I would be interested to see the eyewitness recount their stories and ask them how it corresponded with the video footage.