you know what's astonishing?

[yesme]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

i'll take the time to go thru point by point, i'm hoping you will do the same.

First of all, the Pentagon does not have a tail. But anyways...

So the cab driver who couldn't remember what the hell exactly happened to his car and then supposedly later implicitly "confessed" to being a special operative in the 9-11 planned government attack (I saw those Youtube videos)... that's the "main give away" to "the Pentagon tail" that outweighs all of this evidence:

(1) hundreds of other witnesses who say they saw a plane come in and impact,
(2) phone calls from the plane prior to impact,
(3) detailed evidence of 757 plane components in the wreckage, and
(4) DNA confirmation of the passengers' remaines all throughout the wreckage area?

Are you serious?

You really think that the US government, with all of its sophistication and connections, needs to involve some common cab driver (particularly one who is far from the sharpest tool in the shed) as a secret operative in order to make 9-11 work?? What in the hell would they need him for? You really think the government would need his cab to drive by just as the plane flew in and get his winshield busted up (but not the hood, government forgot that part! lolz) as a part of their secret plot? That's probably the stupidest premise I've ever heard of.

So the cab driver who couldn't remember what the hell exactly happened to his car and then supposedly later implicitly "confessed" to being a special operative in the 9-11 planned government attack (I saw those Youtube videos)... that's the "main give away" to "the Pentagon tail" that outweighs all of this evidence:

what do you mean he could not remember? have you done NO research at all? his story is all over the net

England’s story is that he was going 40 mph when he felt the jet go over head, and then the light pole came smashing through his front windshield. He says he then skidded sideways to a stop, and that a stranger stopped and helped him remove the light pole from the windshield, and then left without ever giving his name, or even speaking a word.

England’s story is suspect because photos show the hood of his sedan untouched and gleaming like a mirror, although his front windshield was destroyed. England is quite clear that it was not the smaller section at the top of the light pole that impaled his windshield, but the big, 40 foot, 247 pound pole. He contends that after it pierced his windshield, with perhaps five feet of the top end of the pole inside the cab, that the other 35 feet stuck straight out into the air, not touching the hood of the cab.

The question is, with the windshield destroyed, what held the pole up the in air? CIT drove with England to his property in the country to inspect the cab.

They hypothesized that perhaps the narrow end of the pole had pierced the back seat or floorboards of the cab, holding it in place and not allowing it to touch the hood of the cab. But their inspection showed that there was only an insignificant rip in the rear seat, and no damage to the floorboards. Although the dashboard was damaged, no part of the hood, including the edge near the windshield, showed any damage.

What makes the story even more incredible is that England claims that as he was removing the pole from the windshield, he fell down, but managed, even as he was on the ground, to keep holding the pole in the air. Remember that the pole is 40 feet long and weighs 247 pounds, while England appears to be about 65 years old.

now for those of you who thinks it's possible that they stood at the front of car and lifted the pole out, without damaging the hood, even after the cabby fell down, i will ask you to yourself go out and pick up a 30 foot long 100 pound pole from one end, and see if you can do it.

you can not, it's called center of mass.

caber tossing is a good point of reference for this fact.

(1) hundreds of other witnesses who say they saw a plane come in and impact

hundreds saw the plane, very few claim to have seen it impact, and even then eyewitnesses imho can not be trusted on either side.

(2) phone calls from the plane prior to impact,

please provide list of phones calls from this flight, yes i know how to use google, but i have a feeling that your anwser will be telling as to how much research you have done on this subject.

(3) detailed evidence of 757 plane components in the wreckage, and

really? cause if your talking about the photos of "engine parts" found at the pentagon, it would be nice to note that NO ONE from any company that makes those parts has verified that they are from their engines.

also, i notice thru pics and such, that you dont have enough evidence for one engine, so what happened to 99% of the plane and 1+ engines?

did the engine disintergrate on impact? or did it melt in the 20 min fire?

(4) DNA confirmation of the passengers' remaines all throughout the wreckage area?

i know it escapes you how the engines did not survive, but bone and flesh did, i will get into this topic when i find out what you think happened to the rest of the plane and the engine.

btw, there ARE studies done on dna in a fire setting, i would suggest you read up on it, along with temps used in the creamation process.

i'll give you a clue though, dna burns in alot less of a fire then a 757 engine does.

You really think that the US government, with all of its sophistication and connections, needs to involve some common cab driver (particularly one who is far from the sharpest tool in the shed) as a secret operative in order to make 9-11 work??

to make 9-11 work? no

but it is a small part of the bigger story, yes, the cab driver story is supposed to make the plane flying thru 5 lightpoles more believeable, except to people like me who know how plane wings are built and what they can withstand.

i wont bore you with the details on how wings can flex up and down but not front to back due to the spars in the wing.

i wont bore you with the fact that BIRDS have been known to damage wings(but steel lightpoles dont..lmfao)

i wont let you in on the fact that by the first light pole, there would of been a hairline fracture, by the second light pole, the wing would of ripped off, but if by magic it did not, the walls of the pentagon would of snapped the wings off.

their is only two possibiltys here, the wings hit the wall and the wall gave way to the wings(we would see the holes caused by the wings) or the wings snapped off when hitting the wall, when the wall did not give.

there is no other possibilty.

none

at all.

i dont see no holes in the wall where the wings went into the building, nor do i see the wings outside of the wall.

lets hear your explanation on this matter sir.

btw, before you ask, i have 3 years of aerospace education thru the civil air patrol, i know how planes are built, and how they perform, i can provide tons of links that will back up everything stated about a planes wings in my post.

What in the hell would they need him for? You really think the government would need his cab to drive by just as the plane flew in and get his winshield busted up (but not the hood, government forgot that part! lolz) as a part of their secret plot?

you mean, do i think the government or who ever did this planted witnesses and people like floyd to make the story more believeable?

absolutly.

do they lose anything by having the cabby tell his tale? not really, cause if he decides to turn on them(which he has) they will label him a crazy and say" why would the government need this guy to make 9-11 work" and then sheep like you repeat the same sentiments.

yeah, the mind is an easy thing to manipulate in case you did not know.

also i suppose the pentagon had their lawn dug out like this for a reason?



this was 4 days before 9-11, funny the lawn points out the exact flight path of the jet before it happened.

here is a pic on 9-11, you can see the plane followed the line in the grass.




let me guess, the terrorists also did the lawn the week before so they could leave this ground marker, correct?

[yesme]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

btw an interesting although not concrete version of what could of happened with the phone calls are in this report.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/national/dotmil/arkin020199.htm

The Gulf War hologram story might be dismissed were it not the case that washingtonpost.com has learned that a super secret program was established in 1994 to pursue the very technology for PSYOPS application. The "Holographic Projector" is described in a classified Air Force document as a system to "project information power from space ... for special operations deception missions."

[runningman]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

Rescue me star Daniel Sunjata.. What are you going to call this guy Miro?

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nkCos-y-WWM[/YOUTUBE]

[Cj Tari]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

the thing about all of this is that like i said in the beginning, even if they conduct another so called "investigation" nothing is going to happen, you seriously think the goverment is gonna say, oh shit, you know what, yeah, it was us, with all of the "anti-goverment" shit thats going on at the moment, you think that Obama's gonna do a press conference and say "my fellow americans, we just learned that us, the Goverment have always been responsible for all of this terrorist attacks, so yeah, all of your fears and insecurities about the Goverment are real, so yeah, we've been lying to you all of this time, but hey, you know what, this doesnt mean that we're gonna continue doing this shit, i mean, you can sit at home and feel secure that your Goverment is working for you............"

like you keep on saying, people dont trust their goverment, people are pissed at their own economic situation, and yet you want something like this to be admited by the goverment? yeah, that would be a great move, i would think people would enjoy the Goverments honesty............

This is whats going to happen, if all of these holliwood dumb asses keep on talking about this shit, the goverment is gonna conduct an investigation, with their own experts, and guest what? they are all going to agree once again that yeah, it was all because of the plains, I called it first.

[chunky]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

Its not a case of the government conducting an investigation. Its the government allowing some one else to conduct an independent unobstructed investigation where independent arbitrator's are installed to to insure there is no tampering. Usually both sides wound appoint people who sit on the commission. All people called to give statements would be called on oath and all avenues investigated and reasonable funding given.

[Cj Tari]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

you are not getting it, again, do you really think the government would allow for something like this to happen, like i said before, i don't know if the government was involved or not, but do you think the government would be dumb enough to start something like this when half of your population doesn't even like you, do you really think government would be happy to put them selves in a position where they could be judged for something that the people around the world would just hate us more than they already do?

do you realize the repercutions that something like this could bring, lets say you have your investigation, and surprise the goverment is guilty just by all of the evidence brough to the table, then we would have all that shit RM keeps preaching about, mass riots, people protesting, killings, etc, do you really think the goverment would really like to take that chance?

this is a loose - loose situation, yes it would be good to know some of the shit that really happen, but at what cost? i doubt that putting people in jail will make up for the mass histeria that something like finding out your goverment was responsible for killing your own people would do.

i was very sad that all those people died in something like that, but knowing if it was the goverment or some other nutjob from afganistan is not gonna make things better, if anything i would assume it would make things worse.

[chunky]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

The US government allowed the attack on Pearl Harbour with prior knowledge which swung the US involvement in world war 2 in the government's favor. What I would be interested in is if there where whistle blowers back in 1940 claiming that they had prior knowledge and others saying they where crazy and the government wouldn't allow something like that to happen. I would also be interested in whether any whistle blowers approached media outlets to expose the story. Same they didn't have Youtube and Google Video in the 1940's

Seems to me in the US a lot of people are more keen on closure than finding out what really happened.

[runningman]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

because they are affraid of what they might find. Always better to reject it.

[Cj Tari]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

it just trully blows my mind the way you people think, i mean, you keep preaching about how the world is completely fucked and how our goverment is always to blame, also youre constantly bitching about how people dont do shit to change things in our country.........yet you want this "truth" to come out, even if this so called "truth" could bring total chaos to a country....

like i said before, putting more attention into this kind of nonsense could only hurt the country, make more people afraid of their goverment, and shit like that, there would be absolutely no good coming out of it, none what so ever.

Also even if there was any decent investigation that could debunk any stupid conspiracy theory, you guys would still continue to bitch and moan about how it was all orchestrated by the goverment and that the "real" truth is still out there.......

[runningman]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

yet you want this "truth" to come out, even if this so called "truth" could bring total chaos to a country....

make more people afraid of their goverment, and shit like that, there would be absolutely no good coming out of it, none what so ever.

It wouldn't cause chaos. Also is it better to believe in a lie?

make more people affraid of their gov't? Why should you be affraid of your gov't at all considering you elect them? Why has it gone so bad and corrupt. Senators and Governors are the new Priests. Rather than fucking little kids they just decided to fuck us all...

[yesme]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

1. if a new investigation and we found out the government did it, we would remove the people in power, i know you think people would start kicking their kids in the head, but i dont feel that would happen so much.

a funny quote that makes me think of this, is "give me liberty or give me death"

if you somehow think that living under a government that kills it's own people while taxing them to the poor house is equal to liberty, then so be it my friend.

i would rather die then to live in fear of my government or what plots they unleash in order to get the sheep in line.

to me, it's simple.

[Miroslav]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

i'll take the time to go thru point by point, i'm hoping you will do the same.

ok. For the life of me I don't know why...but I guess it does provide me with a laugh.

what do you mean he could not remember? have you done NO research at all? his story is all over the net

Look, Mr. Research, if you look up his story on the net and listen to him talk, he frankly sounds pretty damn confused. And the people who interpret his story come up with all kinds of ridiculous shit. Maybe you should do some more research on it.

now for those of you who thinks it's possible that they stood at the front of car and lifted the pole out, without damaging the hood, even after the cabby fell down, i will ask you to yourself go out and pick up a 30 foot long 100 pound pole from one end, and see if you can do it.

you can not, it's called center of mass.

I don't know if Lloyd's story is true in this regard; I wouldn't bet my money on it.

But what I do know is that relying on holes in the details of what happened to his cab as a means of denying (1) consistent eyewitness reports, (2) phone calls from the plane, (3) remnants of the plane, and (4) DNA evidence on the scene is insane.

hundreds saw the plane, very few claim to have seen it impact, and even then eyewitnesses imho can not be trusted on either side.

Wow, I'm surprised you even admitted that anyone saw a plane.

And maybe you should do some more research, because quite a few people saw the plane fly into the building and witnessed the explosion. For someone who is so big on research, I'm surprised you deny this. Maybe you could start with the extremely lengthy post I made a few pages back with all of the eyewitness reports culled from various media references.

[QUOTE=yesme;793004]please provide list of phones calls from this flight, yes i know how to use google, but i have a feeling that your anwser will be telling as to how much research you have done on this subject.
Since you talk like you're the grand exhalted leader of all research, I'll tell you what I did... I Googled it. There's shit all over the net about it. You can start with this generic wikipedia page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Airlines_Flight_77

Two people on American Airlines Flight 77 made phone calls to contacts on the ground. At 09:12, flight attendant Renee May called her mother, Nancy May, in Las Vegas.[21] During the call, which lasted nearly two minutes, May said her flight was being hijacked by six individuals and they had been moved to the rear of the plane.[17][21] May also asked her mother to contact American Airlines, which she and her husband promptly did.[17] American Airlines was already aware of the hijacking. Between 09:16 and 09:26, passenger Barbara Olson called her husband, United States Solicitor General Ted Olson, and reported that the plane had been hijacked and that the assailants had box cutters and knives.[17][25] She reported that the passengers, and possibly the crew, had been moved to the back of the plane and that the hijackers were unaware of her call. A minute into the conversation, the call was cut off. Theodore Olson contacted the command center at the Department of Justice, and tried unsuccessfully to contact Attorney General John Ashcroft.[17] About five minutes later, Barbara Olson called again, told her husband that the pilot had announced the flight was hijacked, and asked "what do I tell the pilot to do?"[26] Ted Olson asked her location and she reported the plane was flying over a residential area.[27] He then informed her of the attacks on the World Trade Center. Soon afterward, the call cut off again.[17]

But I'm sure you'll say that it was just made up and that those individuals who say they got the phone calls were "planted", just like that halfwit cab driver.

That's the great thing with you guys...you can always find a way to make any contrary evidence be "part of the conspiracy."

really? cause if your talking about the photos of "engine parts" found at the pentagon, it would be nice to note that NO ONE from any company that makes those parts has verified that they are from their engines.

Dunno why they didn't bring them in. But that's not enough to convince me that no plane hit the building given all of the other evidence I have gathered. And it's not even that hard to visually determine that the components are from a 757. There are plenty of websites that do an excellent detailed job of demonstrating that.

But I know...the parts were planted; the websites are "part of the conspiracy", right... That's what so great about conspiracy research.


I'll get to the rest tomorrow, but I have to go now. Last thing I will say is this:

i would rather die then to live in fear of my government or what plots they unleash in order to get the sheep in line.

to me, it's simple.

If that's the way you feel, then no one is stopping you.

[runningman]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

You're right Miro. ^^ just don't be surprised when you see boss knappings and more federal agents hung in a tree. Remember your country has more guns on the street then any other nation.

[yesme]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

Look, Mr. Research, if you look up his story on the net and listen to him talk, he frankly sounds pretty damn confused. And the people who interpret his story come up with all kinds of ridiculous shit. Maybe you should do some more research on it.

he told his story a couple of different times, including the one for the survivor fund. btw a lie is confusing for the person telling it, unless they are a professional.

I don't know if Lloyd's story is true in this regard; I wouldn't bet my money on it.

his whole story hinges on that one part though.

if someone or a couple people helped him to remove it, who were they? why was there NO pictures with the pole in his cab? pics were being taken right away, and a cab with 20 foot of a lightpole sticking out of the window would of been a shot someone would of taken.

this guy gets hit(almost killed), but stops, jumps out, pulls out this pole, all before someone can snap a picture of it?

Wow, I'm surprised you even admitted that anyone saw a plane.

And maybe you should do some more research, because quite a few people saw the plane fly into the building and witnessed the explosion. For someone who is so big on research, I'm surprised you deny this. Maybe you could start with the extremely lengthy post I made a few pages back with all of the eyewitness reports culled from various media references.

i would be surprised if you got 20 people who saw the palne enter the building. at 500 mph, you would have to be looking right at the pentagon when it hit(as you can see by the video from the pentagon)as the plane was a blur.

and again, eyewitness are shaky at best, and even less so when they are paid by the government, i know planting eyewitnesses to influnce what people saw is not something you have studied, by it's a classic propaganda ploy.

Since you talk like you're the grand exhalted leader of all research, I'll tell you what I did... I Googled it. There's shit all over the net about it. You can start with this generic wikipedia page:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/America...ines_Flight_77

lmfao, i knew it!

your researched stopped and started with that link i'm willing to bet. other wise you would of known that THE GOVERNMENT now claims the calls from barbera olsen did not take place(which either means her husband lied or another part of the government cover up)

That conclusion is, in any case, starkly contradicted by evidence about phone calls from Flight 77 presented by the US government at the trial of Zacarias Moussaoui in 2006.28 Far from attributing all four of the “connected calls to unknown numbers” to Barbara Olson, as the 9/11 Commission suggested, the government’s evidence here attributes none of them to her, saying instead that each of them was from an “unknown caller.” The only call attributed to Barbara Olson, moreover, is an “unconnected call” to the Department of Justice, which was said to have been attempted at “9:18:58” and to have lasted “0 seconds.” According to the US government in 2006, in other words, Barbara Olson attempted a call to the DOJ, but it did not go through.29 The government itself has presented evidence in a court of law, therefore, that implies that unless its former solicitor general was the victim of two faked phone calls, he was lying.


28 United States v. Zacarias Moussaoui, Exhibit Number P200054 (http://www.vaed.uscourts.gov/notable...osecution.html). If unable to download this document, see “Detailed Account of Phone Calls From September 11th Flights” (http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/e...tail.html#ref1).



29 How the government could have concluded that this call was attempted by Barbara Olson is not clear.

But I'm sure you'll say that it was just made up and that those individuals who say they got the phone calls were "planted", just like that halfwit cab driver.

i dont know, did ted olsen got 2 phone calls from the perps with some kind of voice changing tech, or did he lie, cause according to your government, that you believe on this issue, they say he DID NOT get any calls.

so whats it going to be?

That's the great thing with you guys...you can always find a way to make any contrary evidence be "part of the conspiracy."

well when a man calls a press conference and says his wife called him twice, and then we later find out she did not call him at all, what exactly would you call that?

sure, he lied, but why would he do that?

oh, yeah to give credence to the terrorists with box cutters and headbands story, i forgot that it came from the supposed calls from barbera olsen.

now it's clear why he lied, he is part of the cover up, unless it's normal for a man who just(mins before) lost his wife to give a press conference(when we now know she did not call at all)

yep, nothing strange there

Dunno why they didn't bring them in. But that's not enough to convince me that no plane hit the building given all of the other evidence I have gathered. And it's not even that hard to visually determine that the components are from a 757. There are plenty of websites that do an excellent detailed job of demonstrating that.

But I know...the parts were planted; the websites are "part of the conspiracy", right... That's what so great about conspiracy research.

i know it's hard for you, but i'll make it easy for you.

i'll accept that the parts are from a 757 engine, ok.

now YOU tell me where the other 99% of the plane and the 1+(+ =meaning the parts of the enigne that they did not find)engine, where is that at?
it's a simple question you keep skipping over, i thought you were going to anwser all my points? have i skipped some of yours or something?

If that's the way you feel, then no one is stopping you.

you are correct, and when they come to shoot me with vaccine or when the dollar collapses, then i know who is to blame, and no one will stop me.

[runningman]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

good post ^^