you know what's astonishing?

[dig72]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

Not sure if this has been posted on these forums before, but I came across a lecture given by a Daniele Ganser and thought others may find it useful in some way.

He basically goes into who lied and where we are today in regards to the events prior to and after 9/11.

[DIDI]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

Thank you .

[floridaorange]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

watching now, thanks. funny that it's in conjunction with Indiana Univ. (res0's home state).

This is about a week old, it's not a debate about 9/11, but still relevant to the thread imo.

[floridaorange]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

[dig72]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

Thanks for the vid FO.

But I had to stop at around the 4 min mark, I couldn't take it anymore.

The mention of, 'anthrax attack', 'having no counter terrorism experience', 'came up with the idea harsh methods used' and all sorts of complete and utter rubbish was already too much to bare.

The most sinister part was yet to come and that was the mention of a 'PALESTINIAN' with a picture of him wearing a freaking eye patch. And if that in itself, isn't a great big, 'FUCK YOU STUPID GOYIM', then I don't know what else to say.

This 'PALESTINIAN' they mention hasn't been charged and yet they chose him in their opening salvo of "suspects involved".

Why didn't they use the 'KUWAITI' born "9/11 Mastermind", Khalid Sheikh Mohammed as an example? Not only was he waterboarded many, many times over but he also "confessed" and has in fact been charged and sentenced to death by the US military commission.

This program is just more of the same lies, coverups and propaganda used to deceive the American citizens and the world all over. And it needs to be exposed for what it is.

I am in no way having a dig at you FO, just the program and how I see and read the nonsense that is constantly being spewed forth by these criminals and their enablers.

[floridaorange]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

FAO: RESO:

Popular 9/11 Conspiracy Theories Debunked


by RoninWolf89 · 20 hours ago

Popular theory of explosives used in the towers.

The most popular theory is that explosives were used to bring down the towers. However, no evidence or residue was found of explosives in the wreckage. Many theorists say that the towers came straight down like an organized implosion. However, these towers spread out as they collapsed, taking out a large area.

The towers collapsed due to stress and heat from the plane crashes.

Many theorists say that jet fuel doesn't burn hot enough to melt steel. However, most of the fuel burned off in the first few minutes during the initial explosion, igniting everything else in the towers (papers, desks, carpet, bodies, curtains, etc). This produced a fire hot enough to weaken the supports, causing the towers to collapse.

Building 7

Many believe that Building 7 was controlled demolition since it wasn't hit by an airplane and still collapsed. However, the debris from the collapsing North Tower fell into the base of the tower, igniting fires near the lobby.

Helicopter view shows damage going up many levels.

Upon seeing the damage and realizing it couldn't be saved without risking more firefighter lives, emergency workers were pulled from the scene and it was allowed to burn and collapse on it's own. It couldn't be salvaged.

Truthers say something other than a plane hit the Pentagon

However, three cameras caught the plane but since they were security cameras pointing to an open lawn, of course they would be low resolution. Further, many people saw a jet hit the Pentagon, with the plane clipping several lightpoles on the way in (one lightpole was clipped and smashed onto a taxi driving on the freeway as the jet screeched overhead: http://i.imgur.com/zPvl42i.jpg

The video took one frame every second. The plane hit the Pentagon at 530mph

This means that the camera only got a glimpse of the jet as it sped into the Pentagon. Within 2/3rds of a second, the debris shot 300ft through several rings of the Pentagon. Since the camera was taking a frame a second, it was pure luck it caught anything at all.

Many theorists say that there was no plane debris at the Pentagon, hinting that a missile hit it.

However, the plane hit the Pentagon at such high speeds that there were pieces of it all over the place. Parts of the fuselage were found outside (one guy arriving at the scene found part of a human spine on the lawn just outside the impact zone) but most of the debris shot through the building.

They found the plane, it just wasn't intact

Conspiracy theorists say no plane was found. However, lots of debris was found. Parts of the engines, rims from the landing gear, a tire from the front landing gear was found at the exit hole where the debris punched out, some seats and luggage, data recorder (but too damaged to get any information), and the bodies of all passengers were found.

Many theorists say that the hole in the Pentagon was too small for a jet.

However, the plane hit at an angle and unlike the WTC, the plane hit a reinforced concrete wall. The wings essentially disintegrated on impact, with most of the body of the plane shooting into the building: http://i.imgur.com/nVSAQYF.gif

The plane hit very low to the ground, further making the impact hole difficult to see.

The plane hit the first and second floors of the Pentagon. In fact, the plane was so low the left engine actually scraped along the ground and left marks and the right engine hit a generator and knocking it over.

Theorists say that most plane crashes leave debris, unlike Flight 93.

However, Flight 93 crashed different than other planes. Most planes are crash-landing (meaning that they crash at low speeds and shoot horizontally along the ground to minimize damage). However, Flight 93 nosedived into the ground at 580mph. Most of the debris was buried deep in the earth and scattered around the site. One of the plane engines was found 20ft below ground.

Most of Flight 93 was found

Unlike the other planes, about 90% of the plane was recovered, but the biggest pieces were the size of a suitcase. Both engines were found, the intact Black Box, parts of fuselage, pieces of luggage, seats, etc. They found remains of all passengers, but only about 20% of the original mass was found. For example, instead of finding the body of a hijacker, they found part of his scalp. The rest was consumed in the crash and/or buried deep below ground. But they found remains from all passengers and hijackers.

Theorists say that Larry Silverstein (owner of the WTC complex) ordered their destruction to bank on the insurance.

Larry purchased the WTC complex in the months before 9/11 and took out a major insurance policy on them. Many people would find this suspicious. However, when you buy a new car, do you not buy insurance for it in case something were to happen to it? After all, the WTC was previously attacked by terrorists so insurance against terrorist attacks on the buildings you just purchased isn't suspicious, it's logical.

Larry Silverstein lost money

Theorists say that Larry profited off of 9/11 to make billions of dollars. However, he had to pay for the new World Trade Center (which he still owns) and it turns out he needs to borrow money for that because he used all the money to build the new towers. He didn't make money off of 9/11, he lost money.

Theorists say most of the hijackers were found alive in the months after 9/11

However, this isn't true. Many of these hijackers had common Arabic names, much like John Smith is a common name in English language. If an American terrorist did an act on a foreign country and was named John Smith, many of their media would say that there is still a John Smith living in America currently. Further, if any of these hijackers are still alive, why didn't any come forward to clarify the issue? (ex: Mohammad Atta coming forward to say that he didn't pilot the plane that hit the WTC because he is still alive)

Theorists say that holograms hit the WTC

This is based on several videos of Flight 175 hitting the south tower and sometimes the wing appears to disappear. However, this was due to reflection and refraction. The bottom of the wing reflected and was similar in color the sky above, making the wing look like it wasn't there (and therefore a faulty hologram)

Plane debris was found all over the area

No holograms hit the WTC. Plenty of plane debris was found. This picture of an engine from the second plane was found several blocks north of the complex. Other debris were landing gear, engine parts, pieces of fuselage, body parts and a couple bodies still strapped in airplane seats.

Many theorists say that the calls made on the planes were faked since it's difficult to make calls at that height.

However, of the many calls made on the planes, only two were made from cell phones (those calls were dropped within seconds). The rest were made on the planes air phones which were designed to receive calls at that height. (this picture is a message of what passenger Brian Sweeney left on his wife's answering machine three minutes before his plane was crashed into the South Tower of the WTC)

Theorists said the government faked those calls

However, in calls made by passengers, they gave personal info such as the combination to their safe, calling loved ones by their nicknames, saying where a certain object in their bedroom was, and other personality traits that only the original person knew.

"these cut beams are evidence that thermite was used"

Conspiracy theorists say that 'Super-Thermite' was found in the WTC debris, using this picture of sliced steel beams as proof. However, these cuts were made during clean-up (cutting large pieces of the remaining debris into small pieces for easier transport) which explains why they are near ground-level.

"Military planes hit the WTC and shot a missile just before impact to make the big explosion"

Conspiracy Theorists say that the planes that hit the WTC shot missiles just at impact to do more damage. Their proof of this is a small flash of light at the moment of impact. However, when two rigid bodies come into contact at high speeds (865ft/second is how fast the second plane was going when crashed), there is an instant transfer of kinetic energy to heat energy (similar to shooting a bullet at the ground and creating a spark)

"A steel building has never collapsed because of fire in the history of the world"

Due to a 200ton jet smashing into the towers at over 500 mph, many supports and the core were already weakened by the impact itself and the resulting fire weakened the remaining supports for collapse. It's a wonder the WTC stood as long as they did. The Kader Toy Company towers after being engulfed with flames: http://cc.pbsstatic.com/l/95/7795/9780929087795.jpgMadrid Tower that partially collapsed due to fire:http://i.imgur.com/gE41L1R.jpgOakland freeway collapse due to fire from a tanker accident: http://www.mikesenese.com/DOIT/wp-co...0collapse1.jpg

"Why were military jets so far away from the hijacked planes? It's like they wanted them to hit their targets"

Conspiracy Theorists say that military jets were told not to shoot down hijacked planes/let them crash. On 9/11, military jets were still trying to find Flight 11 for almost an hour after it crashed. They even thought it was Flight 11 heading to Washington DC when it was actually Flight 77. There was much confusion this day and nobody knew exactly what was going on. Further, some of the jets were over the Atlantic ocean because the training never conceived of a hijacked plane from within America. All previous plane hijackings were from foreign countries and then landing on America soil for negotiations. The fact that these planes were away from their targets or chasing planes that were already destroyed was simply because of miscommunication, not for allowing them to purposely crash.

"They found Super-Thermite in the wreckage of the World Trade Center"

People say that in this picture, thermite is flowing from impact site. This is actually molten aluminum from the plane debris (which melts at a lower temperature than steel). Iron, sulfur, aluminum, fluorine, manganese were found in debris and are also found in thermite. However, these are found in other things. The gypsum-based drywall of towers was 19% sulfur. Iron is in paint and electronic devices, potassium is found in concrete, manganese is found in batteries, and fluorine is used in freon (found in air conditioning). The WTC used one of the largest AC units in country. Barium Nitrate and Aluminum Oxide are unique to thermite and neither was found in the debris.

"It was impossible to hit the Pentagon that low and at those speeds"

Unless there was a building immediately blocking the Pentagon, it wasn't impossible. It was very difficult however. The plane made a sharp descent from 8000ft and hit several lightpoles (one smashing onto a taxi driving on the nearby freeway as the plane roared overhead) and the left engine actually scraped the ground. The pilot Hani Hanjour actually was training to be a pilot before falling into terrorism. He was considered a poor student by his teacher, but he wasn't an amateur. In fact, in all the planes passengers were calling and saying their planes were flying erratically and violently (Peter Hanson called from Flight 175 and told his parents that passengers were vomiting and the plane was making sharp dives and hard banking turns). The hijackers didn't care about flying the plane well. They just wanted to get their planes to their targets as quickly as possible.

"Even though Flight 93 nosedived into the ground, there still should have been large sections of plane left"

This is a picture of a jet (Flight 363) that nosedived into a Russian airport runway in summer 2013. This was from a height of about a mile. The plane fragmented into pieces upon impact. Flight 93 nosedived into ground at over 550mph, leaving similar wreckage. To say that there should be large sections of plane remaining doesn't make any logical sense.

"How did a hijacker's passport survive the plane's explosion into the World Trade Center?"

It's not impossible. The planes hit at over 500mph so a lot of debris was blasted out of the towers and rained on the streets below. Some other debris that rained down included inflight snacks, toys, a slipper with the American Airlines logo on it (probably from First Class) and more. Some debris was caught in the towers and was cremated, while other debris (and body parts) rained onto the streets below.This is a letter that was found on the streets below after the second plane hit. Turns out someone on the plane was bringing the letter with them from Boston to LA and was found on the streets of NY: http://i.imgur.com/Iu4LqKa.jpg

"Those planes were flying too fast for normal jets"

Partially true. Normal jets wouldn't fly at that speed that close to the ground. However, most of these planes were diving from high altitudes and gaining momentum. Flight 175 (pictured here) took a power-dive from a height of 28,000ft during the last five minutes (averaging a drop of 5000ft/minute) and leveled off at the WTC, which is how it hit the WTC at 580mph.

"Why were there explosions along tower as it collapsed?"

Many theorists say these are the explosive charges being set off along the tower which caused them to collapse. However, each floor of WTC was a full acre in size (208ft by 208ft by 12ft) containing about 519,168 cubic feet of air. The tower collapsing on itself (one floor onto the next) caused half a million cubic feet of air to be pushed out the windows. We are seeing debris, shattered glass, etc, shooting out of the windows, not explosive charges.

[Zover]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

And yet again you have added fuck all new and missed out the parts you don't like to talk about.

[Zover]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

And made some mistakes made earlier in this thread. If you want to start another argument just say so! You can get reso and banned one involved if you want. One of of the reasons many people left this place was the arguments that stemed from this thread. But for some reason you seem to want to keep ingniting it over and over again.

[floridaorange]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

I'm not mad though, you?

[res0nat0r]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

stop feeding Chunky's new alt troll.

[floridaorange]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

it's all in good fun... but tbh, I thought this was too perfect of a list that debunked pretty much everything we debated here, since it was the anniversary and all, I couldn't resist. wasn't meaning to stir the pot necessarily, just add to the archive that is this thread

[Zover]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

it's all in good fun... but tbh, I thought this was too perfect of a list that debunked pretty much everything we debated here, since it was the anniversary and all, I couldn't resist. wasn't meaning to stir the pot necessarily, just add to the archive that is this thread

Has it fuck fuck all you have done is gone through the same old shit we went through before. I can go through your list if you want, only it's not your list is it? It's just a load of stuff you copy and pasted from somewhere else.

[Zover]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

There's some class combo's in that list! LOL

[Zover]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

but tbh, I thought this was too perfect of a list

Extra LOL for this one. LOL

[Zover]

Re: you know what's astonishing?

stop feeding Chunky's new alt troll.

As usual while the Alpha (chunky) dog is away, one dog (Florida) takes a shit, then res0 pops up to take a sniff.