Gay Marriage Legal now in Canada

[runningman]

I can't believe canada has done this.. now the pope is going to condemn canada.. first we pissed off the US for not going to Iraq.. then we pissed off the UK for not going to Iraq.. now we have pissed off the catholic church.. anyone out there we haven't pissed off yet??..I got to get the fuck out of here..

[thesightless]

but wait, michael moore says canada is as close to paradise as we can get...........

i actually admire canada's stance on this. however i am against gay "marriage". marriage originated as a religios right between a man and woman. i am for the legal benifits of a gay marriage, but i think someone needs to realize that the term is a religious term and they are bascially stepping on the religious people. give it a different name, but keep the legal rights.

[Yao]

Damn, that's a good idea Sightless...maybe the best I've heard in this whole discussion.
The only problem is not everyone will see it as a religious thing, it is too embedded in society. Marriage has been taken out of the religious context and placed in the social one.

Runningman: do you believe in God or does the pope have to do it for you?

[davetlv]

Re: Gay Marriage Legal now in Canada

I can't believe canada has done this.. now the pope is going to condemn canada.. first we pissed off the US for not going to Iraq.. then we pissed off the UK for not going to Iraq.. now we have pissed off the catholic church.. anyone out there we haven't pissed off yet??..I got to get the fuck out of here..

Regardless of whether you have pissed of the USA, UK or the Pope, think of it as a way of actually saying to over 10% of your citizens that 'we, the nation of Canada, recognise lesbians and gay men as full equal citizens of our great country'.

Although i'm sceptical about gay marriage, as a gay man i guess i'm allowed to be, what is good about this decision is the fact that in Canada lesbians and gay men will no longer be treated as second class citizens.

[Mr.Big]

Runningman are u being sarcastic cause if not your an asshole...

who cares let gays get married, makes no odds in my books..

[Balanc3]

[toasty]

marriage originated as a religios right between a man and woman.

I am actually not sure this is correct, although it is a popular misconception. 99.9% of organized religion recognizes marriage in some form or another, but the original concept of marriage was as much about maintaining an orderly society as it was anything having anything to do with religion or even love (recalling that early marriages were almost always arranged).

I would further note that the institution of marriage predates Jesus' birth, let alone the development of Christianity, so it is clear that Christians do not have a monopoly on the practice (not that anyone in this thread has suggested that they do, of course). That it is not inherently a religious ceremony or insitution is underscored by the fact that you could go down to your local courthouse and be married by a judge with narry a mention of God.

Marriage has been taken out of the religious context and placed in the social one.

I think that from a historical standpoint, it is actually the other way around -- marriage, which had been a social institution, was adopted by and incorported into religious custom.

I have trouble viewing failure to recognize gay marriage to the same extent as any other marriage as anything other than pure discrimination. Kudos to Canada.

[thesightless]

the concept of marriage as a sacrement originated in the jewish religion. im sure someone can give a better reference to it, i cant im catholic and havent read jewish texts...

but the idea did come from jewish ideologies.

[Yao]

Re: Gay Marriage Legal now in Canada

Now you've confused me Toasty...anyone care to tell what the deal is? :?

You might be right, but if marriage predates the birth of today's biggest religions, in what form did it exist before that?

[davetlv]

According to the King James bible the first reference to 'wife' (which i suppose is a first reference to marriage!) is in Genesis Ch 2 vs 24. I'm not sure whether this is a true translation of the hebrew - surprisingly i dont have a hebrew bible at hand although i'm happy to find out tomorrow or sunday.

[toasty]

Re: Gay Marriage Legal now in Canada

I'll see if I can find something else, but I was able to quickly find this article that may help clear up some of these questions:

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/living/2001888924_marriagehistory29m.html

[runningman]

look it doesn't bother me if your gay or not.. i am not.. but to be given the same rights as a man and wife i am totally against.. they should call them an "arranged couple".. they aren't married though.. married is a man and woman.. I am so happy now that 10% of country is happy (about 2 million people) because we just pissed off about 60% of the world (say 2 billion)..

as for you mr. big i am not an asshole and if we keep pissing people off in the world where does that leave my country?? alone.. I don't care if your gay but don't infringe on the values of the catholic church.. don't call it a marriage..and you live in ireland so it wouldn't bother you anyway..

Davetly they aren''t treated as second class citizens here.. but why do they need to call it a marriage?? why don't tey try to make this legal in say saudi arabia or Iran??

[toasty]

I don't care if your gay but don't infringe on the values of the catholic church.. don't call it a marriage.

With sincerely no offense or disrespect intended towards the Catholic church or Catholics everywhere (esp. b/c I live in the most Catholic city this side of Vatican City), shouldn't it be the other way around? Is separation of church and state not a part of Canadian governance? It sounds to me more like the values of the Catholic church being used to infringe upon the rights of gay people.

they aren''t treated as second class citizens here.. but why do they need to call it a marriage??

What are you afraid is going to happen if they do? I always hear people talking about gay marriage somehow threatening their own marriages -- if the marriage two gay people I've never met before and who I will likely never meet is a threat to my marriage, perhaps my marriage wasn't on such strong ground to begin with.

Anything other than the full rights given to anyone and everyone in this country is equivalent to treating the gay population as second class citizens. I can't speak for Canada, but here in the States we have regrettably proven in the time leading up to the civil rights movement that "separate but equal" is anything but.

Of course, runningman, if you're against gay marriage, there are tons of states here in the US that would love to have you, including my home state of Missouri. We could use another Cardinals fan, what do you say? :wink:

[runningman]

I am not affraid of my personal life being affected by this.. I am affraid of one of the most powerful men to walk the planet, the Pope.. he isn't going to like this very much.. I can't believe they voted in gay marriage before legalizing marijuana.. where are there priorities??

[davetlv]

runningman, you have constantly on this board stood up for the US campaign in Iraq, Something i admire in you. I would like to believe you have done so because you thought giving the Iraqi people civil liberties and freedom was the right thing to do. If thats the case then i can't see your problem here. Allowing gay men and lesbians to be treated the same as everyone else can only be right. Its basic cicil liberties.

If i've misunderstood you however. . . . my bad!

BTW, excuse my ignorance, but as a Canadian i thought you should be less worried about the Pope and more worried about the opinion of your Head of State, Queen Elizabeth II also know as The Supreme Governor of the Church of England!