Copenhagen - PLEASE sign!!

[nick007]

Re: Copenhagen - PLEASE sign!!

I signed a while ago!

[chunky]

Re: Copenhagen - PLEASE sign!!

Yes, It amazes me that billions of people of people believe in a higher being with no evidence , but it amazes me even more that a large number of these people are not prepared to believe in what they see happening around them.

Sadly you have answered my question

Runningman, you have most definitely reclaimed your crown as the most objectionable person[ or madman] on this forum.

I find it incredibly disturbing that the people that are coming to this thread aren't the people who support , but the people who want to push their own agenda.

I don't think I have said at any point I don't believe it. But I am willing to question it. The fact that Al Gore excluded the Medieval Hot Period from the data is a bit worrying, plus the fact he was willing to purchase an apartment in an area that he thinks has an immanent possibility of flooding is a bit strange. I'm not pushing any agenda. I would like to see transparency and open debate

[DIDI]

Re: Copenhagen - PLEASE sign!!

^^^ I would like to see a better world. Reading your previous posts, I think you are being just a tad disingenuous here. I obviously don't have the same view point as you. Quite frankly I keep coming back to real things like Islands flooding and people dying.

Most of what you are saying is the distracting stuff that we are hearing from the big polluters here as the fight against a very pathetic ETS

I can't understand why people fight against living a better, greener, healthier. life. It's progress!!, and in the right way for a change. People have always complained about progress, but we have survived this far. In fact there is a huge amount of money to be made here.

I could waste my time find articles etc, to refuting your very selective statements, but I think it's a pointless exercise and I find it quite distressing that people can be so blind.

So I think I will leave this thread to you and look for something a little more constructive to do.

I should have quit after you said this,

I fairly sure fires, flooding and melting ice are not a new phenomenon people have been dieing for thousands of years as a result of weather conditions.

[fuctuup]

Re: Copenhagen - PLEASE sign!!

Fuctup, There is a saying that we get the politicians we deserve. WE vote for them.

So true. It doesn't matter people always vote their pocket book. The US is in big trouble finacially so everyone wanted to vote to the person that would give them the most handout and you couldn't be more right about the fact we get the politicains we deserve. It seems the Obama nation is having second thoughts. I can only imagine what it would be like with Al Gore. He has a lot of interesting points but they are so far fetched.

[chunky]

Re: Copenhagen - PLEASE sign!!

I can't understand why people fight against living a better, greener, healthier. life. It's progress!!, and in the right way for a change. People have always complained about progress, but we have survived this far. In fact there is a huge amount of money to be made here.

Nether can I but people shouldnt be lied to in order to get them to live a greener life style. Your responce is no different than the greenpeace campiner in the frist video, looking for articles relatating to the matter is pointless. What we need to be doing is going to the route of the information and openly looking at it from there which is what christopher monckton told the protestor to do. I can see whats going on around me but how do I know this isnt part of a cycle thats been going on for thousands of years.

[Michael^Heaven]

Re:

In fact there is a huge amount of money to be made here.

This is the problem. There is a lot of money to be made with a Climate Bill. Carbon taxes will be big business & corporations/governments know this all too well. Sadly, this dog & pony show is not really about the greater good for mankind & that's who will suffer, not benefit in the end.

[fuctuup]

Re: Copenhagen - PLEASE sign!!

I can see whats going on around me but how do I know this isnt part of a cycle thats been going on for thousands of years.

It has been going on for thousands of years and I am all for cleaning up the environment, but you couldn't have said it any better, we are being lied too and this is nothing more than someone trying to make big money on this issue.

[Kat]

Re: Copenhagen - PLEASE sign!!

i never trust mainstream media without doing my own research and based on what i learned from other sources i do not believe in global warming idea at all!! i wont try to convince anyone of anything - do your own research!
and yeah i do recycle

[bobjuice]

Re: Copenhagen - PLEASE sign!!

Just believe what suits you. Believe what makes you feel comfortable.
Most of the problems you create will be many miles from where you live so it matters little eh?



"I'm alright Jack, pull the fuckin ladder up!" as we say on the building sites of England.

[bobjuice]

Re: Copenhagen - PLEASE sign!!

No the guys name is Christopher Monckton, Lord is his tittle.

^ very good

whatever a tittle may be

[Yao]

Re: Copenhagen - PLEASE sign!!

Glad you read the important parts of my post. By the way have you checked his sources??

For everyone of these deniers there are hundreds, if not thousands of reputable scientists who passionately believe that climate change is very real. I have to ask why do you choose not to believe what you can see all around you if you will only look. It is not about who can use words better it's about things that are happening in the world now.

Here we have just had the hottest and wettest November in recorded history . Pacific islands are already severely affected by rising ocean levels. I heard this from actual habitant of one at the walk against warming march last week. http://www.tuvaluislands.com/warming.htm



This probably Autralia's peak scientific body .

http://www.csiro.au/science/Changing-Climate.html

http://www.csiro.au/resources/pfbg.html

Another question . Is there anything I could say that would make you change your mind??

The Tuvalu Islands are more probably losing height because of the extraction of drinking water from their bottoms, not a rising sea-level. Article

Other than that I'm simply not buying this whole catastrophic man-made warming scheme, it reeks too much of much of money, politics and religious dogmatic thinking. Economically and ideologically driven tunnelvision to the max IMO.

- the climate changes, has always changed and always will be changing. There have been spikes and dips in the earth's temperature much worse which have occurred on much more radical speeds. Just because we can consciously monitor such a change doesn't mean anything, and aren't we suffing from some god-complex by deciding that we will not let the earth's atmosphere warm up by more than 2 degrees celcius? What if mother nature decides it's time for a tropical intermezzo or a new little Ice Age. Hm? Watcha gonna do, human? Temperature charts past 4000 years

- Data shows that the earth's temperature charts have much more correlation with the activity of our sun instead of CO2 levels in the atmosphere. In fact, data shows that the CO2 levels follow temperature changes with a delay of approx. 800 years. Changing levels are the result of temp changes, not the other way around. Ice core data showing CO2 values lag

- the pack of emails from CRU that was hacked and published uncovers a high degree of manipulation from 'climatologists' (which isn't even a real science). No matter how your look at the contents of the mails, people have been lying to keep control over the information flow to the public. And that is unforgiveable. Data has been used extremely selectively or has been left out of the equation where it did not support the story unprecedented global warming. Climate skeptical scientists have been kept out of the official publication bodies so as to create an image of consensus among their readers. NY Times, Examiner, Bishop Hill. Mike's nature trick > creating a hockey stick graph by selectively using data and showing an incomplete graph Another article on the Trick

- Above has also shows to me that these so-called scientists have been very unscientific in their apprach by not following the real scientific modus operandi which is, when a theory is formulated, proving its value by trying to falsify (unprove) it. As long as that doesn't happen, the theory stands. Not by excluding dissenting views and data from co-scientists. Ergo: by not working according to scientific standards, the involved scientists and institutions have disqualified themselves as a reliable source.

- money money money, just follow the smell. It's not only the people that work in the field of climatology that have an interest in keeping the flow going, but also corporations and politicians. The market for CO2 ER was already $126Bln in 2008 and is only expected to grow exponentially once a new ER quotum has been established. Because any 'good' which can be measured in units and scarcity can be labelled with a price tag, and therefore it can be traded. 90% of of last years ER transactions has been labelled fraudulous, and it's not the common guy on the street who has profit here. There is a whole new industry developing here which is based on the trade in non-physical units, the right to emit certain quantities of CO2. Here's one of the beneficiaries of this system: Rajenda Pachauri 1 2 A

BBC broadcast on the programmes used to create CRU's temperature models.

CBS article

450 skeptical peer reviewed papers

I could go on for another while because there is so much to read and say about this but I think you should just read up on this thing. There's a lot of spin from both sides but to me the weight of lying scientists displaying almost religiously dogmatic behaviour in combination with extremely large economic interests is enough to make me doubt the motives of all involved in the alarmist campaign.

We've been actively studying weather patterns for maybe the last 150 years on a planet that has been around for a 6 billion years or so and suddenly, for the sheer fact that we are consciously able to detect structural change in our environment, we decide that this perceived change is wrong? Not only that, we think that it is our behaviour that is decisive in wether the change is natural or unnatural...and then on the Copenhagen summit we decide that we will not let the global temperature rise more than 2 critical degrees celcius. Talk about a 'god-complex'...deciding how the planet's climate should behave and resolving to actually 'manage' its temperature as if it were a pan with water on an electric cooking plate. Things may be changing, but who are we to decide what change is acceptable and what change is not?

Oh, and when, ever, is anyone going to give me numbers on those 'majorities of scientists' every alarmist is talking about all the time? And knowing that skeptical people have been bullied out of the literature on climate, or into silenty going with the alarmist flow out of fear of losing their job and livelyhood, and knowing that even the IPCC put names of skeptics on the list of contributors to their reports, how can I even trust these numbers? Hm?

[sono]

Re: Copenhagen - PLEASE sign!!

Man made global warming or whatever they call it now, is the biggest hoax of all time. Not because of the recent East Anglia E-mails hack but to say the governments around the world need to raise green taxes to change global climate is just plain ridiculous. The world has been warming since the ice age. This has nothing to do with man-made pollution.

By the way who remembers to the millenium bug and the billions spent on that?

There something like this every decade to scare people into ludicrous government spending.

[runningman]

Re: Copenhagen - PLEASE sign!!

Didi you make it sound like a bad thing when all I am doing is revelaing the truth to you. Would you rather live in a lie?? Don't you realize this whole thing is about Money? The big oil companies LOVE this new climate deal. They will buy credits and be carbon neutral. There will also be a global tax on all transactions in the world.

So don't try to make it sound like I am some bunny killer against living on a cleaner planet. I am bringing to your attention that this whole green movement is based on a lie and it is about taxing people more.

[chunky]

Re: Copenhagen - PLEASE sign!!

Whatever happened to Acid Rain ? You dont hear of it anymore

[feather]

Re: Copenhagen - PLEASE sign!!

How do I know China wrecked the Copenhagen deal? I was in the room.