Core Values

[runningman]

Do you think that people need to be watched by the government in order to be safe or are people for the most part "good?"

[floridaorange]

Re: Core Values

^Do you think the gov't is watching you? (is the first thing that comes to mind)

[runningman]

Re: Core Values

I see you didn't have the balls to answer.

Also the debate is over "if" the government is watching us. They are. All of your data from your google searches goes into a database ties to your IP. When you go to an airport you have security cameras that records your mvement. Then you have naked body scans that goes into a database.

Microsoft just got caught with their spying leak. Micrsoft online surveillance guide. http://blog.seattlepi.com/microsoft/archives/195869.asp

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9ApqZNkQok[/YOUTUBE]
So really do you actually believe that they aren't watching you. This isn't the 1920 when a person has to follow you outside your house and tap your phone.

You aren't free. Just the illusion of free.

[res0nat0r]

Re: Core Values

That doc isn't a 'spy guide' it outlines what type and for how long MS retains data. This is used for law agencies when they subpoena microsoft for user info related to crimes and it tells the law agencies how to interpret this data and what it is.

Notice the title of the doc: 'Global Criminal Compliance Handbook'. I know everyone wants to say it is a 'spy guide' since everyone hates microsoft and they are the bane of the Internet, but this isnt that big of a deal. Google has somewhere a set of documentation that details across the board how and what info they retain in their search logs and your gmail account too.

note: *all* large internet companies like microsoft/google/yahoo/your local isp have been sued by some gov't agency for information, it is just when/how and if they give that info over is what you should just be concerned about. if the fbi is running some sting and finds that your ip address is hosting a child porn site, the fbi will have to sue comcast or whoever to find out what account and user is bound to that ip. it is up to them if they want to turn this data over or not. how easily and what they turn over based on what evidence they are presented is what matters if you want to be concerned about privacy.

[runningman]

Re: Core Values

wow that is some of the best double talk I have ever read!!

They don't spy but they figure out how long to store your data?

Wow!

[picklemonkey]

Re: Core Values

I believe for the most part we're good, but I voted yes because I feel their regulation of weapons, drugs/alcohol, etc keeps the streets even safer. I don't mind Google or Microsoft ("The Government") tracking my data, airports storing pictures of my huge phallus in their database, cameras at stoplights, RFID chips, etc because I'm personally doing nothing wrong and have nothing to hide. They do it to find those who are doing things which may endanger others to some degree (drunk driving, running lights, bring weapons on airplanes, whatever), which is ok by me.

I don't think they "need to" but I'm glad that they do.

[floridaorange]

Re: Core Values

ditto

[runningman]

Re: Core Values

I see what you're saying pickle but isn't that "I have nothing to hide" kind of the wrong message when it comes to Freedom? I mean how can you be free in body, mind, and spirit if everything you do in your daily routine is recorded and being watched and criticized.

Science tells us that life reacts differently when there is an observer. People will react differently when someone is constantly looking over their shoulder. It is like having a teacher looking over your shoulder during a math test to make sure you weren't cheating. I didn't cheat but that still buggged the hell out of me because if affecting my thought. I couldn't focus properly. I felt guilty or ashamed.

I don't think this is a US or Canada problem either. I think this is a global problem. We can't claim freedom and democracy yet everything is under a totalitarian veil...

This is why I brought this topic up

http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/02/26/citizens.rights.poll/

Now again this is not a US or Canada problem. It is a global problem. I have been seeing more and police whether it is cyber cops, police officers etc even in Canada here and I wish it would stop. I don't want my kid to be raised in a totalitarian state mentality. It will affect his/her consciousness and reality.

[floridaorange]

Re: Core Values

not much of a voyeur are ya RM?

[runningman]

Re: Core Values

I have a stripper pole in my room.. Does that count?

I urge everyone to get one as well.

[bobjuice]

Re: Core Values

I have a stripper pole in my room..

I swapped mine for a Lithuaniun - cheaper!

[Miroslav]

Re: Core Values

I see what you're saying pickle but isn't that "I have nothing to hide" kind of the wrong message when it comes to Freedom? I mean how can you be free in body, mind, and spirit if everything you do in your daily routine is recorded and being watched and criticized.

The debate about how far government should interfere in private affairs is always a relevant, ongoing debate. But at least here in America, "freedom" has never meant that you can do anything you can possibly think of without monitoring, without rules, and without consequences. I think that's a naive perception. You're free to control many things about your life, but it is always within the context of a rules-based society. This is not and has never been an anarchist system.

[res0nat0r]

Re: Core Values

I believe for the most part we're good, but I voted yes because I feel their regulation of weapons, drugs/alcohol, etc keeps the streets even safer. I don't mind Google or Microsoft ("The Government") tracking my data, airports storing pictures of my huge phallus in their database, cameras at stoplights, RFID chips, etc because I'm personally doing nothing wrong and have nothing to hide. They do it to find those who are doing things which may endanger others to some degree (drunk driving, running lights, bring weapons on airplanes, whatever), which is ok by me.

I don't think they "need to" but I'm glad that they do.

I think this sums it up nicely. Sure none of us WANT people looking over our shoulders but unfortunately society wont be able to function without some oversight. Look at what happened to the market with the free market economy that Greenspan believed in, then testified that there was a 'Flaw in the model that I perceived is the critical functioning structure that defines how the world works, so to speak.'

Also the Stanford Prison Experiment is another good example of some self governance in action.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanford_prison_experiment

Maybe I'm stretching a bit there above, but I and most would agree and are ok with that we are better as a whole with some gov't oversight. It pisses people off when it gets said, but again, since I don't have anything to hide I am ok with what is going on.

[picklemonkey]

Re: Core Values

I see what you're saying pickle but isn't that "I have nothing to hide" kind of the wrong message when it comes to Freedom? I mean how can you be free in body, mind, and spirit if everything you do in your daily routine is recorded and being watched and criticized.

Science tells us that life reacts differently when there is an observer. People will react differently when someone is constantly looking over their shoulder.

I agree with what you're saying here to an extent, but I don't think we all feel that we have actual eyes on us 24x7. A camera that just stores data and triggers an action when a certain event happens (running a red light, metal is found on a person, whatever) is different from having a teacher behind your back. I do think that we shouldn't have eyes on us 24x7 telling us immediately when we're bad, but I don't feel it's at that point. I feel that it's only where our safety is at some type of risk.

Plus, you have to realize that the whole Web 2.0 initiative is embraced by the world. If people didn't want their lives to be public, they wouldn't sign up for Facebook, MySpace, LinkedIn, Twitter, etc. The Internet is what it is today because people actually want their lives to be digitized and public.

[floridaorange]

Re: Core Values

The Internet is what it is today because people actually want their lives to be digitized and public.

Then there are those on the other end of the spectrum who prefer to philosophize with their peers completely and totally year after year anonymously using pretend identities and without even 1 photo of themselves ...



...ironic