Lionel Messi

[Haziel]

Re: Lionel Messi

so, the more talented you are, the more it's acceptable to cheat? odd logic that

my opinion is the absolute opposite - if you're the best player in the world (and an icon/hero to millions) you have even more of a duty to do the right thing.
Who knows Haziel, you are a lot younger than me and maybe saw the "hand of god" goal as something to aspire to?? To me it appeared to be a desperate fucking low and made a mockery of the greatest tournament there is (f.a. cup excluded)

my football career peaked at a level we call in the u.k. "senior league" which is about as far as it goes before you get paid to play. Call me old-fashioned if you like but i've always been happier to achieve victory by fair means, anything less is a hollow victory indeed.
Same goes for getting beat. I'll always be able to accept being beaten by someone better than me, it can be tougher to accept being beaten by bad luck but i'll never accept being being beaten by a cheat.

That, to me, is sport.

I see your point , but lets be realistic in a sport like footbal where there are many tricky events during the game , there are times where you have to take advantage of the situation ,whether you like it or not .

I see more of a complete player someone talented with a sneaky sort of malice attitude than just the talented guy next door . I would choose the first guy always becuase he will be on top of his game and will do whatever it takes to make the team win . You have to know when to fake a foul , put your hand on the shoulder of the opponent on a corner kick , let the time run its course etc. all of these things are not consider legal though they are expected and are part of the game . d My point is If you can take advantage while the referee is not looking then i consider it valid , not everyone can do it , if you do it you are putting yourself on a risk of a yellow or red card . Again the phrase "fortune favours the bold" .

Maradona as a gifted master in footbal knew how to take advantage of a situation , he did it , he scored and Argentina beat England on one of the most memorable matches in world cup history .

As you guys are reading this , I'm dancing to this song

[bobjuice]

Re: Lionel Messi

do whatever it takes to make the team win . You have to know when to fake a foul ,

I disagree, faking a foul is cheating of the worst order. It may be a cultural thing as players from certain parts of the world have always been more prone to the diving and play acting that goes on - i dunno?

What kind of man pretends he's been hurt when he hasn't ? A 5 year old perhaps?

Your video ^ made me laugh @ 50s - they even practice falling over in training.

If an opponent of mine was rolling round on the floor as if snipered when i'd barely even made contact, i'd instantly lose any respect i might have had for them. Once back to their feet i'd let them know i think they're a cheating piece of spineless shit and ensure that i'd maximise any opportunity that presented itself to give them an excuse to roll around in pain for real.

[Steve Graham]

Re: Lionel Messi

Haz, are you even from Argentina?
after all this you'd better be or else you're coming across as a complete twat defending maradona, lol
i understand defending his career, and the other goal he scored legally was a thing of beauty, but actually defending the hand ball is just ridiculous, but each to their own

and no it wasn't a nuns league, but of course it wasn't professional either, but as Bob pointed out, the level of play doesn't matter whether it's the EPL or a pick up match in park, the laws are the same as is the passion, sometimes more so in the lower divisions

funny thing is, karma is a bitch, he may have pretty much won a world cup for his country, but now he's a fat drug addicted punch line around the globe, nice legacy... I don't like wishing ill will against a country's team in the WC, but to see him fail miserably as a manager would be great. he had better hope Messi is as good as a lot of people are saying, I haven't really followed his int'l career so this will be interesting to watch.. can't wait for JUNE!!!!

[Haziel]

Re: Lionel Messi

I disagree, faking a foul is cheating of the worst order. It may be a cultural thing as players from certain parts of the world have always been more prone to the diving and play acting that goes on - i dunno?

What kind of man pretends he's been hurt when he hasn't ? A 5 year old perhaps?

Your video ^ made me laugh @ 50s - they even practice falling over in training.

If an opponent of mine was rolling round on the floor as if snipered when i'd barely even made contact, i'd instantly lose any respect i might have had for them. Once back to their feet i'd let them know i think they're a cheating piece of spineless shit and ensure that i'd maximise any opportunity that presented itself to give them an excuse to roll around in pain for real.

So , you think is wise to stand on your feet until they brake your fucking leg ... hahahah ok dude i guess culturally thats your philosophy , I respect it but i don't agree with it.

I guess here is were we come apart , I can't find the word to actually describe the way we see football , to us Southamericans there is a word called "picardia" which can be applied to our game that is a mixture of : sharpness ,sneakyness and sagacious. its our way to see soccer feel it and play it , is part of it and it doesnt specifically mean to fake a foul , hand the ball or pass the ball between the opponents legs more than that is the attitude of taking advantage of a situation when is presented to you .it is built into our society and its a our way of seeing life and soccer , you wont get it because its a cultural thing . If you disagree on it, then you disagree on our way of feeling football and life which is fine but it doesnt make you any better than us .

You might probably like the Japanese players , i remember when i was living in tokyo the national coach which was a brazilian coach would say he would go crazy over the players becuase they did not have that extra element in soccer to pull the opponents jersey , to let the time runs its course or make strategic foul , because it was embedded in the japanneese culture to "never touch persons" japanese are not touchy so for them it was very difficult to perform these type of resources , again a culturaL THING , in my way of seen it and the coach's they were good athletes but incomplete soccer players

In the end just like everything in life there is no absolute truth .... everything is relative

[bobjuice]

Re: Lionel Messi

Getting your leg broken and "faking a foul" aren't quite the same thing though are they?

[bobjuice]

Re: Lionel Messi



^^ Look at this guy go. Will anyone remember him as a fine athlete? The picture tells it's own story, he beat the best sprinters in the world and easily.
You can't argue with the fact he won the race - but he was simply a fucking cheat who achieved his "victory" outside of the rules and spirit of his chosen sport and will always be remembered as such

[Haziel]

Re: Lionel Messi

Haz, are you even from Argentina?
after all this you'd better be or else you're coming across as a complete twat defending maradona, lol
i understand defending his career, and the other goal he scored legally was a thing of beauty, but actually defending the hand ball is just ridiculous, but each to their own

and no it wasn't a nuns league, but of course it wasn't professional either, but as Bob pointed out, the level of play doesn't matter whether it's the EPL or a pick up match in park, the laws are the same as is the passion, sometimes more so in the lower divisions

funny thing is, karma is a bitch, he may have pretty much won a world cup for his country, but now he's a fat drug addicted punch line around the globe, nice legacy... I don't like wishing ill will against a country's team in the WC, but to see him fail miserably as a manager would be great. he had better hope Messi is as good as a lot of people are saying, I haven't really followed his int'l career so this will be interesting to watch.. can't wait for JUNE!!!!

Do i need to be from the same country to show appreciation for a person ?? ofcourse not ,I dunno if you are from england but even so you certainly come off as a bellend for showing your hate for somebody that hasn't done anything to you.

[Haziel]

Re: Lionel Messi

Getting your leg broken and "faking a foul" aren't quite the same thing though are they?

No but I know you get my point , if the team in front of you , has the job to tag foul a player then is it smart to wait till someone breaks your leg than to actually fall down when you see that a malintention tackle is coming your way and have the referee give them a card ?

[Haziel]

Re: Lionel Messi

^^ Look at this guy go. Will anyone remember him as a fine athlete? The picture tells it's own story, he beat the best sprinters in the world and easily.
You can't argue with the fact he won the race - but he was simply a fucking cheat who achieved his "victory" outside of the rules and spirit of his chosen sport and will always be remembered as such

Using our street knowledge , brains ,physical advantage is one thing and using drugs is another thing, Whoever uses drugs is just plain dumb not only because he will most likely get caught and ruin his whole career but also because you are taking advantage by secondary means . That my friend is cheating

[bobjuice]

Re: Lionel Messi

No but I know you get my point

Yeah i do.

And i read your words with interest. The world cup is so much more than the coming together of football teams, the coming together of cultures is what makes it what it is.

In England we tend to look longingly at other countries and wish we could produce more of a certain type of player, I guess that works both ways, people around the globe admire the English league for it's own particular qualities.

I don't know who you'll be shouting for Hazshit when it all kicks off but good luck to them. Enjoy the tournament.

If it was down to me i'd do away with the group stages and make it straight knockout. No seeding, no bullshit, draw each round out of a hat and the Champions would be the team that didn't lose a game. This formula works well in our FA cup and used to work very well in the old European cup before the ££ching ching££ of tv took over and it became the "champions" league - a shit name indeed when you can get there by finishing 4th?. Imagine that, Germany and Brazil drawing eachother in the first round - one of them has to go home, making way for who knows who??

[Haziel]

Re: Lionel Messi

What makes the world cup so beautiful is the different ethnicities and cultures of planet earth concentrated in one event , which in my opinion is the whole point of Sports . To unite rather than break apart

Certainly Im sure the whole world admires the nobility and devotion to their team of the English player . lets put aside all the glamour boy bs , I always thought beckham was a great leader because of this last 2 qualities I just mentioned .

I always choose 4 teams my dear vagjuice , 2 big shots which in this case will be Argentina and Holland , a medium type but that will always bring a surprise as France and a medium underdog like Cameroun .

I guess you can always expect death groups , like group C damn thats a tough one. Straight knockout seems too much of a fixed tournament IMO , at least with groups there are other posibilities like if brazil finishes 3rd in their group and then they have to face an unexpected rival . that finished 1 ST on another group , you might see an advanced final but it gives that surprise element to the world cup , anyhow in the last 8 world cups always the big shots end up with in the final.

[Miguel]

Re: Lionel Messi

english people talk about maradona's hand as jews talk about the olocaust, GET OVER IT !!! . yes you got fucked, ireland got fucked too against france, the fact that this stuff CAN happen gives a certain drama to the game that no other sport has.

[bobjuice]

Re: Lionel Messi

english people talk about maradona's hand as jews talk about the olocaust, GET OVER IT !!!

er, ok

I think i am "over it" really mate but i reserve the right to not like the bloke. I guess most Jews are "over" the holocaust as best they can be but i doubt many of them have a picture of Hitler above the fireplace.

[Miguel]

Re: Lionel Messi

is he the most hated guy in the hole island ?

[bobjuice]

Re: Lionel Messi

is he the most hated guy in the hole island ?

I don't think he's hated really at all, he's more a figure of ridicule