Out With The Old

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • cosmo
    Gold Gabber
    • Jun 2004
    • 583

    Out With The Old


    Victor Davis Hanson
    Into the Tar Pits
    Dinosaurs either evolve or die.

    There was a time when the political lines about foreign policy were well drawn. Those on the Left felt that American democracy and global capitalism did not necessarily offer the rest of the world a much better alternative than either Soviet-sponsored Communism or third-world thuggery. Instead, in this view, American realism favored order, but not spreading liberty or social justice abroad ? and only managed to promote overseas more of the unfairness and racism that we supposedly suffered from at home.

    Everything from Vietnam to Nicaragua was seen through this reductionist prism, assuming a haughty United States at odds with indigenous reformers the world over. But with the fall of the Berlin Wall, the rise of the capitalist juggernauts China and India, the globalization of the world economy, radical social and economic changes here at home, and the spread of Islamic fascism, none of those old views makes sense anymore.

    President Bush was criticized by many Democrats on both practical and political grounds for ostracizing Yasser Arafat, the past beneficiary of a rigged vote. Yet most are silent now about the news that local elections are now taking place for the first time in nearly a decade. Why voting all of a sudden now? Was the president right in seeing the removal of this so-called national liberationist as a key to democratic change on the West Bank?

    The old critique of American policy in the Middle East was driven by charges of petro-imperialism ? that we would do any and all things to secure fuel for our gas-guzzlers. But China now satisfies most of its skyrocketing oil appetite from Saudi Arabia, Iran, and Oman. Unlike the United States, there is no internal Chinese opposition to question the new superpower's oil politics, which are heating up global energy markets. The so-called Peoples Republic cares only about price and availability. It worries not at all about its petro-trade?s subsidizing Wahhabism, theocracy, or Islamic extremism.

    We may still rant about the American rejection of Kyoto. But is anyone alarmed over the hundreds of coal plants sprouting up in India and China to ensure billions of people that there will be enough energy for a possible future lifestyle of the type we now take for granted in Santa Barbara and Nantucket? In short, we will soon enter an age in which China may well change the world's environment, affect the price of oil, and govern the world's trade as much as the United States ? and will care almost nothing about what Western liberals say, secure either that its fraying socialist veneer or sheer size and power will earn it a pass from the censure of Western intellectuals.

    If we thought indigenous liberationist movements of the Islamic world ? who have beheaded and killed to be free of Western religious tolerance, equity for women and homosexuals, and voting and human rights ? put an enormous strain on the ossified Left, wait until Mao's old socialist utopia begins to send ultimatums to the democracies of the Philippines, Japan, Taiwan, and South Korea. What will Earth First do when this socialist behemoth sprouts its oil rigs in the Arctic tundra and pristine seas?

    The international media is not up in arms about the murder of filmmaker Theo Van Gough or the video execution of democratic activists in the streets of Baghdad ? at least not as they once had been over the televised shooting of a Vietcong captain by South Vietnamese general Nguyen Ngoc Loan. Of course, the democracy activists in Iraq were working only for freedom, not, like Loan, for socialist tyranny. The only political consistency for the media's reaction or lack thereof seems to be the particular affinity of the shooters and victims for the United States: Pulitzer Prizes when a Communist is shot by an American surrogate; snores when the murdered Iraqi idealists shared an American vision of elections.

    Consider further: The United States runs staggering trade deficits with most of the world. Its dollar is at an all-time low. Its postwar international protocols ? from the World Trade Organization to the United Nations ? either favor the non-West or look unkindly toward the United States. The American military, at great risk and cost, alone in the world saved Kosovars, Afghans, and Iraqis from tyranny. For all the Vietnam-era rhetoric about American meddling, the elected Karzai and the provisional Allawi are a far cry from the Shah, Pinochet, or Somoza. We are doing things in the Middle East that make no sense in terms of traditional economic or political advantage ? and yet still bring out 1960s-era stegosauruses alleging imperialism and hegemony.

    What has happened? Sometime around the 1980s, the Right saw the demise of the Soviet Union as an opportunity to evolve beyond realpolitik to promote not just anti-Communism but grassroots democracy, coupled with free-market globalism from Eastern Europe to Latin America and Asia. In contrast, the hard Left stayed in its knee-jerk suspicion of the West and continued to give a pass to authoritarians from Cuba to Iran who professed socialism, thinking that the world was a static zero-sum game in which somebody's gain spelled another's loss ? oblivious that real wealth could be created by a change of mentality and technology and not mere exploitation.

    As the old politics lie in ruin from hypocrisy and incoherence, the Left needs to get a new life. Here are a few more suggestions:

    1)Remember that multilateral inaction ? whether in the Balkans, Rwanda, or Darfur ? is often calculated, selfish, and far more lethal to millions than risky interventions like removing the Taliban and Saddam.

    2)Quit idolizing Europe. It was a far larger arms merchant to Saddam than was the United States; it supplied most of Dr. Khan?s nuclear laboratory; it financed much of the Oil-for-Food scandal; and it helped to create and tolerate the Balkans genocide. It has never freed any country or intervened to remove fascism and leave behind democracy ? silly American notions that are to be caricatured except when it is a matter of saving Europeans.

    3)Stop seeing an all-powerful United States behind every global problem. China is on the move and far more likely to disrupt environmental protocols, cheat on trade accords, and bully neighbors. The newly expanded Europe has a larger population and aggregate economy, stronger currency, and far less in trade and budget debts than does the United States ? and is already using that economic clout for its own interests, not global freedom from dictators and autocrats.

    4)Don't believe much of what the U.N. says anymore. Its secretary general is guilty of either malfeasance or incompetence, its soldiers are often hired thugs who terrorize those they are supposed to protect, and its resolutions are likely to be anti-democratic and anti-Semitic. Its members include dozens of nations whose odious representatives we would not let walk inside the doors of the U.S. Congress. The old idea of a United Nations was inspiring, the current reality chilling.

    5)Stop seeing socialists and anti-Americans as Democrats. When a Michael Moore compares beheaders to our own Minutemen and laments that too many Democrats were in the World Trade Center, he deserves no platform alongside Wesley Clark or a seat next to Jimmy Carter or praise for his pseudo-dramas from high Democrats. Firebrands like Al Sharpton and Michael Moore are the current leftist equivalents of 1950s right-wing extremists like the John Birchers. They should suffer the same fate of ostracism, not bemused and tacit approval.

    6)Ignore most grim international reports that show the United States as stingy, greedy, or uncaring based on some esoteric formula that makes a Sweden or Denmark out as the world's savior. Such "studies" always ignore aggregate dollars and look at per capita public giving, and yet somehow ignore things like over $100 billion to Afghanistan and Iraq or $15 billion pledged to fight AIDS in Africa. These academic white papers likewise forget private donations, because most of the American billionaires who give to global causes of various sorts do so as either individuals or through foundations. No mention is made of the hundred of millions that are handled by American Christian charities. And the idea of a stingy America never mentions about $200 billion of the Pentagon's budget, which does things like keeping the Persian Gulf open to world commerce; protecting Europe; ensuring that the Aegean is free of shooting and that the waters between China, Korea, Taiwan, and Japan are relatively tranquil; and stopping nasty folk like the Taliban and Saddam from blowing up more Buddha monuments, desecrating Babylon, or ruining the ecology of the Tigris-Euphrates wetlands.

    Action and results, not rhetoric and intentions, are what matter. Cease blaming others for declining popularity. There is neither a Karl Rove conspiracy nor an envisioned red-state theocracy. No, the problem with our Left is what killed the dinosaurs: a desire to plod on to oblivion in a rapidly evolving world.

    ? Victor Davis Hanson is a military historian and a senior fellow at the Hoover Institution at Stanford University. His website is victorhanson.com.
  • Yao
    DUDERZ get a life!!!
    • Jun 2004
    • 8167

    #2
    Here I go again...

    We may still rant about the American rejection of Kyoto. But is anyone alarmed over the hundreds of coal plants sprouting up in India and China to ensure billions of people that there will be enough energy for a possible future lifestyle of the type we now take for granted in Santa Barbara and Nantucket? In short, we will soon enter an age in which China may well change the world's environment, affect the price of oil, and govern the world's trade as much as the United States ? and will care almost nothing about what Western liberals say, secure either that its fraying socialist veneer or sheer size and power will earn it a pass from the censure of Western intellectuals.
    In Kyoto they?ve also tried to get China to sign, but they didn?t. Given the fact that the US has also refused to sign, I think it?s a bit hypocritical to complain about China. Also the US is at this moment still responsile for the highest oil consumption (though not for CO exhaust I believe!).
    How?s about: being an example, instead of pointing? China is still in transition, a fast one. With this growth it will become increasingly attached to the Western markets, and this will also give us more influence over them. This works both ways. Europe is still #1, not China.
    Actually Europe is already profiting from this booming oil need, and China still lacks much of the technology we have. Dutch companies are among the biggest offshore and onshore oil contractors working for China.

    What has happened? Sometime around the 1980s, the Right saw the demise of the Soviet Union as an opportunity to evolve beyond realpolitik to promote not just anti-Communism but grassroots democracy, coupled with free-market globalism from Eastern Europe to Latin America and Asia. In contrast, the hard Left stayed in its knee-jerk suspicion of the West and continued to give a pass to authoritarians from Cuba to Iran who professed socialism, thinking that the world was a static zero-sum game in which somebody's gain spelled another's loss ? oblivious that real wealth could be created by a change of mentality and technology and not mere exploitation.
    He keeps accusing the Left of things the Right has done just as well?I don?t believe what I?m reading here?

    1)Remember that multilateral inaction ? whether in the Balkans, Rwanda, or Darfur ? is often calculated, selfish, and far more lethal to millions than risky interventions like removing the Taliban and Saddam.
    Not doing anything is indeed more deadly than acting, but confusing interventions with invasions is really disturbing.

    2)Quit idolizing Europe. It was a far larger arms merchant to Saddam than was the United States; it supplied most of Dr. Khan?s nuclear laboratory; it financed much of the Oil-for-Food scandal; and it helped to create and tolerate the Balkans genocide. It has never freed any country or intervened to remove fascism and leave behind democracy ? silly American notions that are to be caricatured except when it is a matter of saving Europeans.
    You shouldn?t idolize Europe, but should we idolize the US approach? The US has also sold arms to Iraq (remember the war with Iran?).
    Interventions are exactly what we do in Africa, not always with the same amount off succes I admit, but with negociations we have also had our successes. The result may come later, but is usually long lasting, as it involves the least intrusive road and leaves less of a print on the involved countries. Again I say: A little bit of Europe, and a little bit of US. Perfect cocktail. Quit making things black and white.

    3)Stop seeing an all-powerful United States behind every global problem. China is on the move and far more likely to disrupt environmental protocols, cheat on trade accords, and bully neighbors. The newly expanded Europe has a larger population and aggregate economy, stronger currency, and far less in trade and budget debts than does the United States ? and is already using that economic clout for its own interests, not global freedom from dictators and autocrats.
    Please?don?t tell me the US is all about freeing the world from dictators. I for one am not accusing the US of every global problem, problems never have one cause for starters, and the causes are always to be found in many places, persons and directions.
    Yes, we are trying to rid the world from dictators, just as well as the US. We use different methods, have different views on what the best solution might be, but I think it?s unfair to put the US on a pedestal like that.
    Furthermore: the ?new? Europe consists of many countries that are still growing economies, and are in a political transition. They simply do not have the luxury of minding otherone?s business other than their neighbours?.

    4)Don't believe much of what the U.N. says anymore. Its secretary general is guilty of either malfeasance or incompetence, its soldiers are often hired thugs who terrorize those they are supposed to protect, and its resolutions are likely to be anti-democratic and anti-Semitic. Its members include dozens of nations whose odious representatives we would not let walk inside the doors of the U.S. Congress. The old idea of a United Nations was inspiring, the current reality chilling.
    Cheap.

    Kofi Annan is not under investigation, and oh my god he has made mistakes and misjudgments. Bush is Perfect?
    Remember Abu Ghraib?
    Those same ?hired thugs? are also hired by the US. In Bosnia (as well as in Afghanistan and in Iraq) the US has made use of the hired services of private military corporations, in fact they even provide officers for the army, transport material, training personell (who do you think are training the new Iraqi police forces?) and more.
    Several of them have been accused and convicted for trade in women in Bosnia and raping local prostitutes. Do your homework Hanson.

    How are our resolutions anti-democratic and anti-semitic? Give some examples. That we don?t approve of the blind backing of Isreal doesn?t do.

    5)Stop seeing socialists and anti-Americans as Democrats. When a Michael Moore compares beheaders to our own Minutemen and laments that too many Democrats were in the World Trade Center, he deserves no platform alongside Wesley Clark or a seat next to Jimmy Carter or praise for his pseudo-dramas from high Democrats. Firebrands like Al Sharpton and Michael Moore are the current leftist equivalents of 1950s right-wing extremists like the John Birchers. They should suffer the same fate of ostracism, not bemused and tacit approval.
    Word. That goes for you too, Mr Hanson.

    6)Ignore most grim international reports that show the United States as stingy, greedy, or uncaring based on some esoteric formula that makes a Sweden or Denmark out as the world's savior. Such "studies" always ignore aggregate dollars and look at per capita public giving, and yet somehow ignore things like over $100 billion to Afghanistan and Iraq or $15 billion pledged to fight AIDS in Africa. These academic white papers likewise forget private donations, because most of the American billionaires who give to global causes of various sorts do so as either individuals or through foundations. No mention is made of the hundred of millions that are handled by American Christian charities. And the idea of a stingy America never mentions about $200 billion of the Pentagon's budget, which does things like keeping the Persian Gulf open to world commerce; protecting Europe; ensuring that the Aegean is free of shooting and that the waters between China, Korea, Taiwan, and Japan are relatively tranquil; and stopping nasty folk like the Taliban and Saddam from blowing up more Buddha monuments, desecrating Babylon, or ruining the ecology of the Tigris-Euphrates wetlands.
    Agree mostly, though America needs more protection than Europe right now.



    Sorry.
    Blowkick visual & graphic design - No Civilization. Now With Broadband.

    There are but three true sports -- bullfighting, mountain climbing, and motor-racing. The rest are merely games. -Hemingway

    Comment

    • cosmo
      Gold Gabber
      • Jun 2004
      • 583

      #3
      Re: Out With The Old

      I will have to answer this one tomorrow. I'm too plastered at the moment, and it would take way too much work to get my thoughts together.




      Till then on this one....

      Comment

      • cosmo
        Gold Gabber
        • Jun 2004
        • 583

        #4
        In Kyoto they?ve also tried to get China to sign, but they didn?t. Given the fact that the US has also refused to sign, I think it?s a bit hypocritical to complain about China. Also the US is at this moment still responsile for the highest oil consumption (though not for CO exhaust I believe!).
        How?s about: being an example, instead of pointing? China is still in transition, a fast one. With this growth it will become increasingly attached to the Western markets, and this will also give us more influence over them. This works both ways. Europe is still #1, not China.
        Actually Europe is already profiting from this booming oil need, and China still lacks much of the technology we have. Dutch companies are among the biggest offshore and onshore oil contractors working for China.
        The reason in him mentioning China, is the fact that everyone is pressuring the US to sign on, when other countries that are as big as the US are skirting the process with no pressure.


        He keeps accusing the Left of things the Right has done just as well?I don?t believe what I?m reading here?
        How?

        You shouldn?t idolize Europe, but should we idolize the US approach? The US has also sold arms to Iraq (remember the war with Iran?). Interventions are exactly what we do in Africa, not always with the same amount off succes I admit, but with negociations we have also had our successes. The result may come later, but is usually long lasting, as it involves the least intrusive road and leaves less of a print on the involved countries. Again I say: A little bit of Europe, and a little bit of US. Perfect cocktail. Quit making things black and white.
        He is talking about the far Left, which idolizes the European socialist vision. We had a much greater enemy when we sold arms to Iraq by the way. The Soviet Union. Geopolitics can change in a matter of years.

        Cheap.

        Kofi Annan is not under investigation, and oh my god he has made mistakes and misjudgments. Bush is Perfect?
        Remember Abu Ghraib?
        Those same ?hired thugs? are also hired by the US. In Bosnia (as well as in Afghanistan and in Iraq) the US has made use of the hired services of private military corporations, in fact they even provide officers for the army, transport material, training personell (who do you think are training the new Iraqi police forces?) and more.
        Several of them have been accused and convicted for trade in women in Bosnia and raping local prostitutes. Do your homework Hanson.

        How are our resolutions anti-democratic and anti-semitic? Give some examples. That we don?t approve of the blind backing of Isreal doesn?t do.
        Kofi's son is under investigation. Kofi was at the beginning, but I don't know if he had anything to do with the Oil for Food scandal. He didn't say that Kofi was guilty of corruption. Incompetence. And we are training the Iraqi forces, with little, very little help.

        Also, look at the resolutions that have been written AGAINST Israel, and compare them to the ones written against the dictatoral regimes throughout the world that are guilty of genocide and murder. Remember, 180 countries that are in the UN aren't free nations.

        Word. That goes for you too, Mr Hanson.
        For him too? In what regard?

        Comment

        • Yao
          DUDERZ get a life!!!
          • Jun 2004
          • 8167

          #5
          Originally posted by cosmo
          The reason in him mentioning China, is the fact that everyone is pressuring the US to sign on, when other countries that are as big as the US are skirting the process with no pressure.
          I can see what you mean, but this way it is only pointing the finger in one direction. It should point in more than two directions actually...

          Originally posted by cosmo
          How?
          Ok, I may have misunderstood this, but what I think I'm readin is that he says that it's the 'lefties' that have allowed regimes like that in Cuba and Iran by just being plain weak, which I think both sides have done and not because they're weak. I didn't have all to do with the left or right, more with US interests which they either managed or didn't manage to represent in the international arena. And unfortunately this smells like anti-leftist rhetorics more than thorough backed-up facts...

          Originally posted by cosmo
          He is talking about the far Left, which idolizes the European socialist vision. We had a much greater enemy when we sold arms to Iraq by the way. The Soviet Union. Geopolitics can change in a matter of years.
          Yeah, but he is bagatellising the role of the US in weapons sales in the past and present. The biggest arms dealers are the US, France, and still Russia. More countries have developed their own weapons industy at this moment like Zimbabwe, South Africa, and both Korea's.
          You see, not everything he says is wrong, but he irritatingly often just (deliberately) omits information or context. And that is what is bugging me. Because at this very moment it not Europe who is the biggest arms dealer. The Us may not be the biggest, but is deffo selling more...

          Originally posted by cosmo
          Kofi's son is under investigation. Kofi was at the beginning, but I don't know if he had anything to do with the Oil for Food scandal. He didn't say that Kofi was guilty of corruption. Incompetence. And we are training the Iraqi forces, with little, very little help.

          Also, look at the resolutions that have been written AGAINST Israel, and compare them to the ones written against the dictatoral regimes throughout the world that are guilty of genocide and murder. Remember, 180 countries that are in the UN aren't free nations.
          So far Kofi has not for a moment been under investigation, though his son indeed is. Apart from that there has already been given quite a plausible explanation which has been accepted, though I'm still not sure wether it is the truth. Incompetence...maybe. I don't think he had anything to do with the Oil-for-food scandal, he's just one man that has to rely on his organisation. Which imo has become too big...
          Instead of trying to improve things in the UN, the US is only bashing it and trying to take over it's position, but with a totally different way of acting. I'm sorry, but I will never ever approve of the way the US is handling things, and if that is to be the future in international politics and conflicts, I don't wanna be in that future. I wish that just for once people would start to talk with each other and combine their views instead of constantly opposing them, and this is really making me sad man, you can't imagine...

          Originally posted by cosmo
          For him too? In what regard?
          "They should suffer the same fate of ostracism, not bemused and tacit approval."

          He too. But I guess I've already made my opinion on him clear. I'm sorry man: I guess this guy is someone you really approve of, but I have heard better things come out of your mouth than his. At least you back up your statements with info, you show where you've gotten the info that has helped you come to a certain opinion.
          If you'd have written a piece like this, it would have been a lot better. But that's just my humble opinion.
          Blowkick visual & graphic design - No Civilization. Now With Broadband.

          There are but three true sports -- bullfighting, mountain climbing, and motor-racing. The rest are merely games. -Hemingway

          Comment

          • brakada
            Gold Gabber
            • Jun 2004
            • 622

            #6
            And guess what, he's a flip-flopper... :wink: http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/002649.html

            He is very intelligent and a great thinker, but IMHO he thinks too much...
            We shall boldly dance, where no man has danced before..."

            Comment

            Working...