honest question about tracking bin laden

[thesightless]

seriously, we know all these videos and tapes are being delivered to al- jazerra TV/radio. why the hell arent we planting a mole there, satellite tracking the visitors upon the drops, hackingn thier networks to track the emails etc. al-jazerra seems to be the only lead we have on finding binladen and his associates. someone is taping these things and delivering them to the station. he is the real reason why the world is in its current state of affairs and the number one hunted man on the planet.... cant we devote the resources to grabbing him. there are large scale microwave scan satellites that should be running 24-7 over the afghan-pakistani mountain ranges. does anyone elsse find this disturbing that we allow our ""positive relationship" with pakistan and modern civil rights to interfere with grabbing this guy? so what if we have to monitor/hack/steal our way through those who sheild him. personally i would do a lot more if i were in charge.

[Yao]

Maybe because it's not delived in person?

Mail makes it harder, and if it is posted in a different cite every time, it's getting even harder.
Use different chains of people...well...I give up!

[face]

these people are not stupid. believe it or not, they have one of the most sophisticated networks i've ever seen or heard of (based on the carbonari cell structure, etc.).

you think they would be so stupid as to deliver a tape in person...even to an independent media outlet? as you may know, the US has a massive military base in Qatar (where al-Jazeera is based), and we have a positive relationship with this nation. if there were any way of tracking al-Qa'ida through the satellite news channel, don't you think we would be on that like stank on shit?

as for hunting "UBL" in Waziristan (the area that overlaps Afghanistan and Pakistan where he is suspected to be hiding), you are right. the way we are approaching the situation is counterproductive to say the least. people in the state department, CIA, etc. are only NOW beginning to learn about important things like the Pakhtun (Pashtun) Wali--the code of honor, justice, and revenge that these people live by. this explains both why they are "haboring" Bin Laden, and why they have a duty to protect his whereabouts.

it's not as easy as you think to nab al-Qa'ida, especially the way we are going about it. believe it or not, Musharraf is being very cooperative with the US government's requests--this is something that has made him very unpopular and the victim of many assassination attempts.

there has been what many call "the Great Game" taking place in the sub-continent for quite some time now. the British, the Russians, India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and others are all players in this great game. when considering the age of this interplay of nations (and factions within nations), the US is a newcomer with little experience in the region--and it shows.


my suggestion: read Rudyard Kipling's "Kim" and check back with me later :o

that was a bit of a roundabout way of approaching this...if you have more questions, please ask. i'd be happy to discuss this further.

[GregWhelan]

Correct me if I'm wrong - but surely the US has the technology and the information to find OBL?For example, I am guessing that if the US wanted to hunt me down,no matter where i hid I would be found within 24 hours.Surely satellites etc can find him?

Or do they not want to find him to keep US interest alive in the 'War on Terrorism'

[ftc]

the question that needs to be asked is how will the the army & government benefit from capturing osama? think about it. if he is to be captured than what will continue feeding the fear? how will they keep raising those alarms if there is no threat left? how will they continue re-shaping & violating the rights & freedoms people have based on "security" necessities? all that military & intelligence spending that tax payers are funding won't have any significant cause anymore. you need a scapegoat to fuel the hate & carry the blame, even the bible lists one;

A live goat over whose head Aaron confessed all the sins of the children of Israel on the Day of Atonement. The goat, symbolically bearing their sins, was then sent into the wilderness.

because without 'the bad' you cannot have 'the good'. so question the issue from their point of view and it's not so dificult to realize why he's isn't already captured.

call me a conspirator but do your own math. US economy is a war driven economy. conflicts will never cease to exist...

my $.02

[face]

yeah the military industrial complex benefits primarily and directly from this war we are waging.

but don't doubt for a minute that the actions/inactions we have taken in iraq, palestine, and elsewhere have created a thousand new bin ladens.

even if we do capture or kill bin laden, there will be others that take his place. this movement is larger than him now.

[thesightless]

if indeed they are leading him along b/c of war profitability then fuck the gov't but with bin laden, i highly doubt it. i have to beleive that we simply lost him and he is in a hole.

granted my area of OPS was in intelligence(forensic accounting during the yugoslavian operation) , and im not a satellite pro, but i know if we had a person at all the al-jazerra offices, we could sat track the person who delivered it and follow them back to thte source. if nto the source, then at least along the lines of where the fucking video was made. grab that guy and let pakistan torture the shit outta him, hopefully getting some info. and dont cry about torture. if that's what it takes, do it. these people will only kill more and more people down the road. so if violating his civil rights saves a bunch of lives, let it be.

[toasty]

the question that needs to be asked is how will the the army & government benefit from capturing osama? think about it. if he is to be captured than what will continue feeding the fear? how will they keep raising those alarms if there is no threat left? how will they continue re-shaping & violating the rights & freedoms people have based on "security" necessities? all that military & intelligence spending that tax payers are funding won't have any significant cause anymore.

I don't know, I think that's a bit much to swallow. One, I just can't believe that Bush would actually let OBL remain at large if he knew where he was. Second, Bush has already demonstrated an ability, and even a proficiency, at creating fear without any actual imminent threat. He'll find a way, I have no doubt -- it's what he does.

[face]

as was said earlier. the tapes are most likely mailed in. they are not stupid. they cover their tracks pretty efficiently.




as someone so insightfully stated: "they hate us because we don't know why they hate us."

[Yao]

Nice quote there Face...

Well, I think ftc's story partially holds stake, but I just don't think it would be that obvious. He's just one pon in the game, Iran, North-Korea are too. It's more about creating a general idea of danger, the idea that there are multiple societies/persons out for the destruction of Western democracies.

That will keep people approving of investments in defense industry and weapons industry, and keep it alive...Though as long as OBL has not been found, the Bush administration will thankfully use this fact to fuel the fear.

[ftc]

i agree, they have to stick up for the best interest of the country & citizens or atleast provide this image so obviosly they can't just shrug off looking for him, but ever since US went into afghanistan it seems to me (with the lack of news from the region) that there isn't really a great effort being put into the mission. the amount of troups there is quite small. it's true that after osama there might be others (probably due to the sad fact that for every innocent person being killed in iraq today, the US is creating new enemies), but i doubt there will be someone as rich & resourcefull as binladen who doesn't mind using his wealth to finance his agenda...
it's also true that bush will find a way to create fear & turmoil out of the blue but the monthly dosage of binladen tapes does make it easier on his part, reminding the short-minded citizens that he's still out there and at large.

[cosmo]

agree, they have to stick up for the best interest of the country & citizens or atleast provide this image so obviosly they can't just shrug off looking for him, but ever since US went into afghanistan it seems to me (with the lack of news from the region) that there isn't really a great effort being put into the mission. the amount of troups there is quite small. it's true that after osama there might be others (probably due to the sad fact that for every innocent person being killed in iraq today, the US is creating new enemies), but i doubt there will be someone as rich & resourcefull as binladen who doesn't mind using his wealth to finance his agenda...
it's also true that bush will find a way to create fear & turmoil out of the blue but the monthly dosage of binladen tapes does make it easier on his part, reminding the short-minded citizens that he's still out there and at large.

Actually, there are missions going on in NW Pakistan right now, and have been for weeks. We are just not hearing about it through the mainstream press. Bin laden is really hard to find because he is in heavy populated areas in the mountains that are sympathetic to his cause, and if we enter into the region, there are caves and many exits in which he can disappear immediately. If there is anyone there suspected of being an agent, or that is not sympathetic to their cause, they are shot point blank. They only use carriers that carry written letters, and have drop off locations that are untraceable. They stay away from radios and telephones.

https://www.americassecretwar.com

[face]

^ indeed.

that sums up pretty much what i had said before in a slightly more concise way

any sort of radio or telecommunication is avoided at all costs. again i urge you to watch the interview of the two french hostages who were released from captivity in iraq. they said their captors never used cell phones or anything--only to make family-related calls.

[Yao]

The book looks pretty interesting, though pretty biased cosmo...

The strategic successes that are slowly leading the United States to victory

A bit dissapointing, I'm still looking for something on this topic that is truly unbiased, or at least doesn't take sides too much.

[cosmo]

The book looks pretty interesting, though pretty biased cosmo...

The strategic successes that are slowly leading the United States to victory

A bit dissapointing, I'm still looking for something on this topic that is truly unbiased, or at least doesn't take sides too much.

How is it biased? He says that Bush lied about the wmd. He says in the book that Bush misled regarding the reasons why we went to war.

It's not biased. It's strictly based on intelligence as he runs his own shadow CIA company. www.stratfor.com