honest question about tracking bin laden

[Yao]

The fact that they're already predicting a victory over...what? is a bit suspicious IMO...

It should've stuck to the facts solely and not make any predictions, however I agree that it is maybe one of the least biased books around on the subject, and I'll deffo see if I can get my hands on it here.

[cosmo]

The fact that they're already predicting a victory over...what? is a bit suspicious IMO...

It should've stuck to the facts solely and not make any predictions, however I agree that it is maybe one of the least biased books around on the subject, and I'll deffo see if I can get my hands on it here.

You have to understand the scope of the situation. He predicts the outcome of events that involve war strategy, buisness decisions and the rise and fall of the stock market. He has to be good at what he does, being that his company has high stature.

[Localizer]

people in the state department, CIA, etc. are only NOW beginning to learn about important things like the Pakhtun (Pashtun) Wali--the code of honor, justice, and revenge that these people live by. this explains both why they are "haboring" Bin Laden, and why they have a duty to protect his whereabouts.



there has been what many call "the Great Game" taking place in the sub-continent for quite some time now. the British, the Russians, India, Pakistan, Afghanistan, and others are all players in this great game. when considering the age of this interplay of nations (and factions within nations), the US is a newcomer with little experience in the region--and it shows.
.

You'd like to believe that. CO's know , and have known so much about the region and it's values. What comes into play is relaying the information back in time and decyphering every little piece of data.


"the question that needs to be asked is how will the the army & government benefit from capturing osama? think about it. if he is to be captured than what will continue feeding the fear? how will they keep raising those alarms if there is no threat left? how will they continue re-shaping & violating the rights & freedoms people have based on "security" necessities? all that military & intelligence spending that tax payers are funding won't have any significant cause anymore. you need a scapegoat to fuel the hate & carry the blame, even the bible lists one;""

that is exactly what it is....

[face]

COs dont know shit.

i don't think we could find UBL even if we wanted to, which, as you say, we don't. that's all i'm saying.

but, if you think that if/when we find UBL there won't be 1,000 that rise up just like him, then you are very naive.

[thesightless]

in the most humorous manner i can say this.....

face, you have the worst outlook on the future i have ever seen. lol, comon man, there is always the possibility of a great future, just GOTTA KEEP HOPE ALIVE. it aint that bad. we just gotta fight for it.

[face]

what can i say? i'm a cynical, spiteful bastard.

then again, being traumatized in a bloody civil war, being forced to leave your country with nothing but the clothes on your back, and watching 200,000 of your countrymen die will do that to you...

i've been studying the middle east for many years now, and i think that has contributed to my outlook as well...

sorry if i'm being too pessimistic but that's just how i see it!

[thesightless]

where are you from>

[Yao]

I'm still not sure what will happen if they find UBL: new guys like him will definitely stand up, but: will they be equally convincing and have the same financial resources, eg: capacity to continue his work?

For other people to support someone like him, he must be able to make people trust him. They want someone who is really capable of doing 'the job', not just spewing rhetorics and failing at avery terrorist attempt. The guy would need appeal, leadership, charisma and intelligence.

[face]

you're right about UBL being unique in a way. but also remember that he is no ideologue: he was a rich-boy partier who wanted to rebel against something/someone. ayman al-zawahiri is/was the real brains behind the operation (kindo of like karl rove . bin laden, on the other hand, provided much of the funding for operations, and also became a spokesman for the "cause."


as for myself, thesightless, i was born and raised in algeria (to an american mother and an algerian father), and lived there until all hell broke loose in 1993. academics, intellectuals, journalists, and all foreigners were being targeted (both by the islamists and the government, we know suspect), and we were all likely targets as my dad was a university professor and my mother was american. on top of that, my family is known for leading the amazigh (berber) movement in algeria, and that pisses both sides off as well. so here i am...

[jeffrey collins]

How hard is it to find a six foot tall arab that needs a dialisis machine?

[Yao]

as for myself, thesightless, i was born and raised in algeria (to an american mother and an algerian father), and lived there until all hell broke loose in 1993. academics, intellectuals, journalists, and all foreigners were being targeted (both by the islamists and the government, we know suspect), and we were all likely targets as my dad was a university professor and my mother was american. on top of that, my family is known for leading the amazigh (berber) movement in algeria, and that pisses both sides off as well. so here i am...

Well Face...you've been in the shit yourself then. I think it does alter your view on some things as you mentioned earlier.

But what you're saying is, if UBL would captured or killed, all they needed was another fincancial source. But wit all these governments funding terrorism, wouldn't UBL be just a small part of a bigger picture, and thus not be that important at all after all?

[face]

the financial question is tricky but i think there would be sufficient funding. however, i think the loosely affiliated cells around the world would have trouble coming together and cooperating without UBL's charismatic (if you will) leadership.

if UBL is killed, he will be seen as a martyr by many of his followers, which will probably aggravate the situation, and leave a void for new players to step up.

the bottom line is that when you hear Dr. Rice and the President talking about capturing or killing 70% of the network's operatives etc., that doesn't mean that they will ever reach 100%. the network feeds on the realizations of our foreign policy, so until something is done about the things that are fueling rage, extremists will have an audience.



as for your UNSC class, it sounds interesting. i've taken an intro to IR course in undergrad, which focused mostly on the UN. it's really an interesting issue where the UN stands in the new world paradigm that we live in...

[Yao]

Jep, I hope to have some more insight in that after the course...

I think the question of the charismatic leader you brought in is a valid one, but it leads to the question: what to do with Usama if he's captured?Maybe he could be extradicted and convicted in Saudi-Arabia...but I'm still in doubt as to their stance towards him. Formally, they have broken all connections with the man and condemn his actions, but informally, who knows?

Fact is, if the US tries and convicts him, he will indeed be a martyr. If S-A tries and convicts him, it could mean that the Arab world doesn't have to put up with people like him and takes responsability, or the whole Arab world could turn against them and lebel them as a US lapdog, thereby destroying the political credibility of the country.

If the UN International Court does it, we will be labeled as US lapdogs. I don't think any decision is the right one.
But I do think he should get capital punishment: if it were only to eliminate the risk of some extremist fruitcakes bombing the hell out of some place the free him...I'd pity the country/city where he was held captive.

[Tatanka]

Re: honest question about tracking bin laden

He is the mole. I saw him with my own eyes while deployed over in Afghanistan. I promise! He's the dude cleaning up our mess at the chow hall

[runningman]

Re: honest question about tracking bin laden

Bin Laden has been dead for a long time..He was killed by Omar Sheik.. According to Benazir Bhutto. I will go with her since she is dead now..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UnychOXj9Tg