ok, sharon was just plain stupid.

[thesightless]

then what the fuck was WW2 about?????? the world didnt like the way hitler looked? JEEEEEZ. stupid politicians at thier best.

[davetlv]

Re: ok, sharon was just plain stupid.

Although I might concur with the title of this thread (about Sharon being stupid!), it might be useful to post what he actually said.

Taken from Haaretz. http://www.haaretz.com
- - - - - - -
Sharon: World didn't lift a finger to stop the Holocaust
By The Associated Press

In a speech marking the 60th anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz, Prime Minister Ariel Sharon said Wednesday that the world "didn't lift a finger" to stop the Holocaust.
Sharon said Jews learned a lesson from the genocide that they can only rely on themselves.

In unusually harsh remarks to parliament, the prime minister noted that when the Nazis began deporting Jews from Hungary to Auschwitz in large numbers in 1944, Allied forces did not bomb the railroad tracks leading to the death camp in Nazi-occupied Poland.

Even 60 years after Auschwitz was liberated, anti-Semitism still exists throughout the world, Sharon said, adding that the image of a Jewish people that defends itself is "anathema" to the "new anti-Semites."

"Legitimate steps of self-defense which Israel takes in its war against Palestinian terror actions which any sovereign state is obligated to undertake to ensure the security of its citizens are presented by those who hate Israel as aggressive, Nazi-like steps."

Sharon said that over a period of several weeks, more than 600,000 Jews from Hungary were killed in Auschwitz.

"The sad and terrible conclusion is that no one cared that Jews were being killed," Sharon said.

"At the time of the most terrible test, friends and benefactors didn't lift a finger," he said. "This is the Jewish lesson of the Holocaust."

"The State of Israel has learned this lesson, and since its founding, it has defended itself and its residents, and provides safety to Jews everywhere. We know that we can only rely on ourselves," he said.

For this reason, Israel as the Jewish state must always remain strong, Sharon said.

"We must always remember that this is the only place in the world in which we, the Jews, have the right and the power to defend ourselves with our own strength," Sharon said. "This we will never surrender."

- - - - - -

[thesightless]

this is my boss writing this right now, well me typing, him talking. he felt like replying. (btw a 72 german jewish man)im catholic.


as sad as it is, certain, not all, people need to stop crying about anti semetism in the sense that it is a world wide problem like disease. people will always hate other people. its a right to hate whoever you want, we just need to punish those who act on that hate. :?

the term, at least in america(more specifically, here in NYC) is used so much in the "poor me" sense of the word. it comes off like the people who use it feel like they demand that everyone love them. that however is not the case. the more the idea of anti semitisism is used, the more hate it genereates in those who truly dislike the jewish culture. ---

[rubyraks]

thanks for posting that dave was wondering what the hell he was talking about.

sightless, I was gonna actually respond to your idiotic statement but since you chose to raise it to yet another ridiculous degree, no comment is necessary. Enjoy your hating self.

[davetlv]

I assume your latter comments arent aimed at me rubyraks :wink:

[rubyraks]

I assume your latter comments arent aimed at me rubyraks :wink:

hell no!

[thesightless]

no me, but i dont hate jews, hell i almost asked one to marry me.

my boss was talking about the poor me attitude that comes off the over use of the term by too many people. i can see where he comes from.

[Yao]

Ruby...I seriously don't understand that remark of yours: Okay, the thread name is a bit harsh maybe, but other than that...

[thesightless]

im not understanding it either?

its just my boss's opinion that the anti semetic feelings people harbor today shouldnt be used to say that the world didnt care about jews and the terrible events of that period in europe. i dont know anymore.

[davetlv]

Re: ok, sharon was just plain stupid.

Sharons comments make some sense, especially considering that 60 years after the liberation of Auschwitz anti-semitism is growing in europe again.

This is an article from Sundays Haaretz.

- - - - - - -


Israel charts Anti-Semitism rise in Russia, Britain
By Reuters

A government report expressed alarm on Sunday at what it said were sharp rises in violent anti-Semitism in Russia and Britain over the past year, but noted France had made inroads fighting the phenomenon.
Figures from Israel's Global Forum Against Anti-Semitism showed the number of violent anti-Semitic incidents held steady at 96 in world-leader France in 2004, but rose from 55 to 77 in second-place Britain and from 4 to 55 in Russia, third on the list.

The group, under the auspices of Prime Minister Ariel Sharon's office and the Jewish Agency, said it received reports from local Jewish communities of 282 attacks against Jews and Jewish institutions in 2004 compared with 234 in 2003.

"The greatest number of events and the most severe attacks occur in Europe," the report said, listing three incidents last year of violent anti-Semitism in the United States, which has the largest Jewish community outside Israel.

Commenting on anti-Semitism in Russia and Ukraine, where physical attacks against Jews and their institutions rose from 15 in 2003 to 44 last year, the report said the governmental response to a "disturbing situation" was "woefully insufficient."

It said the steep rise in anti-Semitism in Britain was "alarming," with much of the desecration of synagogues and Jewish cemeteries carried out by Islamists.

"A central cause: years of hostile reporting and commentary about Israel in the British press now is spilling over into the street," the report said in apparent reference to coverage of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Jewish community leaders in Britain, where around 265,000 Jews live, said in public comments on Wednesday anti-Semitic attacks in the country were increasing substantially.

British police said there had been at least eight racist attacks in the last two months on Jewish men in the Stamford Hill area of north London, which has a large Jewish community.

The British reports came a week after Prince Harry, third in line to the British throne, caused global outrage after he was pictured at a costume party wearing a Nazi uniform with a swastika.

He apologized, but Jewish groups said he should visit the Auschwitz death camp for ceremonies this year marking the 60th anniversary of its liberation.

In its report, the Global Forum said that since mid-2004 anti-Semitic expressions in France, where some 600,000 Jews live, had declined somewhat.

"Over the past year, French authorities have invested significant effort in fighting, and educating against, anti-Semitism," the document said.

- - - - - -

[rubyraks]

I'll explain. sightless, presuming davetlv's quote is what you were responding to, you call Sharon stupid for saying things like "the world didn't didn't lift a finger" to stop the holocaust. And you're defense of this is suggestive that WWII was about that. That's idiotic. First of all, at the start they knew nothing of the concentration camps...hell, even the Jews didn't believe the stories. Yet there was a war. Second, throughout the war innumerable countries rejected Jewish refugees. And thirdly, many countries viewed the camps as a strategic diversion of hitler's attention and resources away from the battlefield and they concentrated their efforts on the war. And I'm not even getting into the main point of the war which was that Hitler was intent on taking control of all of Europe...reason enough to fight him.

The Jews being rescued from the camps was almost an afterthought of the war, not the point of.

[Yao]

There will always be fruitcakes who either believe what Hitler said, or still can't get over the fact that 'the Jews killed Christ'.

Too bad...people should start looking at each others merits, characters, acts and so on instead of cultural heritage or color. you can be man, woman, gay, lesbo, Christian, Jew, Muslim, Buddhist, Fetishist, black, white, yellow, red, green, orange, be ugly or really hot or called Forrest Gump: If you're nice to me and respect me, I'll do the same to you. Period.

[Just make sure you don't have smelly feet, bad breath or fart/belch in public.]

[Yao]

I'll explain. sightless, presuming davetlv's quote is what you were responding to, you call Sharon stupid for saying things like "the world didn't didn't lift a finger" to stop the holocaust. And you're defense of this is suggestive that WWII was about that. That's idiotic. First of all, at the start they knew nothing of the concentration camps...hell, even the Jews didn't believe the stories. Yet there was a war. Second, throughout the war innumerable countries rejected Jewish refugees. And thirdly, many countries viewed the camps as a strategic diversion of hitler's attention and resources away from the battlefield and they concentrated their efforts on the war. And I'm not even getting into the main point of the war which was that Hitler was intent on taking control of all of Europe...reason enough to fight him.

The Jews being rescued from the camps was almost an afterthought of the war, not the point of.

You're completely right Ruby, but don't flame him too hard for overseeing that. His irritation about Sharon's statements are genuine, and not totally misplaced: he's saying that the West and America have deliberately ignored the fact that Jews were being killed full-scale, and deliberately omitted to bomb railroads leading to Auschwitz and the encampments themselves, eg: consented with the mass killings. Which is ridiculous I think.

So Sightless: the war was not exclusively on stopping the killing of the Jews, but you're right when you are annoyed by Sharon's statements IMHO. Just don't jump the gun too fast. :wink:

[thesightless]

i hear ya, just for sharon to say that was pretty dumb. if the peoples of the world hated the jewish culture that much, isreal wouldn't exist as it does today. also, keep in mind that is one of the only nations that is promoted for exclusive religious purposes. hell, we have too many people going after the middle east b/c of its religious standing.


PS edit

Ira, (the getn who signs my check) told me to think about this:

"appeaseing is not the same as accepting." it took me a minute to think of why he said it. but i get it now. we should accept, no one has to appease.

[rubyraks]

alrighty fair enough....sorry if I offended anyone. I just got mighty upset by the comments without much backing it up, but I better understand your point now.