ok, sharon was just plain stupid.

[davetlv]

i hear ya, just for sharon to say that was pretty dumb. if the peoples of the world hated the jewish culture that much, isreal wouldn't exist as it does today. also, keep in mind that is one of the only nations that is promoted for exclusive religious purposes. hell, we have too many people going after the middle east b/c of its religious standing.


PS edit

Ira, (the getn who signs my check) told me to think about this:

"appeaseing is not the same as accepting." it took me a minute to think of why he said it. but i get it now. we should accept, no one has to appease.

What absolute tosh!

Feel free to call Sharon dumb for many of his comments, but these were the most emotional comments i have heard from the man. Speaking truely from his heart, something politicians fail to do, I finally got a glimpse of what this man is all about. I'm sorry sightless you thought his comments about the world not lifting a finger to help the Jews during the holocaust were dumb, but the comments are true. The world didnt give a f*ck about the camps or the Jews.

And i'm sorry if you are offended or upset by these comments (which clearly you are as you've turned them into a thread) but deal with.

To then go on a sprout more tosh about if the world didnt like jewish culture blah blah blah Israel wouldn't exsist today blah blah blah . . . . one of the many reasons for my country's exsitence is not the fact that the people of the world like the jews its more of the fact that Europe, and the world, was so horrified after the holocaust and riddled with collective guilt over their inactions during the period of 1933-1945 that the creation of a Jewish state was enevitable.

The fact that Israel is a Jewish state is no different than the UK being a Protestant state or Iran being an Islamic state. The reason why people are going after the countries in the middle east isn't because of that countries religion but because of that countries fanatasicsm plain and simple. If you're now saying that basic world policy is against religious states well i'm sure that whole new discussion.

And as for Iras' comments. . . well finally your boss has said something i can agree with!

[Yao]

Feel free to call Sharon dumb for many of his comments, but these were the most emotional comments i have heard from the man. Speaking truely from his heart, something politicians fail to do, I finally got a glimpse of what this man is all about. I'm sorry sightless you thought his comments about the world not lifting a finger to help the Jews during the holocaust were dumb, but the comments are true. The world didnt give a f*ck about the camps or the Jews.

The world was more concerned with Hitler trying to run the show. But I regularly see the documentaries on Discovery on WWII (they have some fetish for that war), and it has appeared to me that most of the liberating forces didn't even know about the camps, or at the most only rumours. Most soldiers were astonished to find those camps, crowded with people in horrific circumstances.

[rubyraks]

Feel free to call Sharon dumb for many of his comments, but these were the most emotional comments i have heard from the man. Speaking truely from his heart, something politicians fail to do, I finally got a glimpse of what this man is all about. I'm sorry sightless you thought his comments about the world not lifting a finger to help the Jews during the holocaust were dumb, but the comments are true. The world didnt give a f*ck about the camps or the Jews.

The world was more concerned with Hitler trying to run the show. But I regularly see the documentaries on Discovery on WWII (they have some fetish for that war), and it has appeared to me that most of the liberating forces didn't even know about the camps, or at the most only rumours. Most soldiers were astonished to find those camps, crowded with people in horrific circumstances.

HIS-story

[Localizer]

i hear ya, just for sharon to say that was pretty dumb. if the peoples of the world hated the jewish culture that much, isreal wouldn't exist as it does today. also, keep in mind that is one of the only nations that is promoted for exclusive religious purposes. hell, we have too many people going after the middle east b/c of its religious standing.


PS edit

Ira, (the getn who signs my check) told me to think about this:

"appeaseing is not the same as accepting." it took me a minute to think of why he said it. but i get it now. we should accept, no one has to appease.

What absolute tosh!

Feel free to call Sharon dumb for many of his comments, but these were the most emotional comments i have heard from the man. Speaking truely from his heart, something politicians fail to do, I finally got a glimpse of what this man is all about. I'm sorry sightless you thought his comments about the world not lifting a finger to help the Jews during the holocaust were dumb, but the comments are true. The world didnt give a f*ck about the camps or the Jews.

And i'm sorry if you are offended or upset by these comments (which clearly you are as you've turned them into a thread) but deal with.

To then go on a sprout more tosh about if the world didnt like jewish culture blah blah blah Israel wouldn't exsist today blah blah blah . . . . one of the many reasons for my country's exsitence is not the fact that the people of the world like the jews its more of the fact that Europe, and the world, was so horrified after the holocaust and riddled with collective guilt over their inactions during the period of 1933-1945 that the creation of a Jewish state was enevitable.

The fact that Israel is a Jewish state is no different than the UK being a Protestant state or Iran being an Islamic state. The reason why people are going after the countries in the middle east isn't because of that countries religion but because of that countries fanatasicsm plain and simple. If you're now saying that basic world policy is against religious states well i'm sure that whole new discussion.

And as for Iras' comments. . . well finally your boss has said something i can agree with!

You're goddam right I'm offended by Sharon's comments. Fact is, no one expected to have the holocaust turn into what it was. No one thought it would get as big as it was, otherwise intervention would have come from the start. I'm sure guilt is upon a lot of people, but how do you think the Chinese feel after The Rape of Nanking, which was by far, if not, just as gruesome as the holocaust. Or how about those Japenese led experiments after WW1 on the Chinese people because the Japanese feared a chemical war was soon to come? The "Oh so hard done by" mentality of the jewish sector needs to repeal because it's getting extremely irritating, more so than consistent whining of black people. In retrospect, everyone has had to fend for themselves and jews are no different. And considering how many American lives were lost during WW2, I would suggest that Sharon keep his mouth shut unless he wants to piss off a large amount of veterans and their offspring. We discuss it as history and as a big cluster fuck and hope that it never happens again, not as the blame game in wich fingers have to consistently be pointed at someone.

[davetlv]

You're goddam right I'm offended by Sharon's comments. . . . . . The "Oh so hard done by" mentality of the jewish sector needs to repeal because it's getting extremely irritating, more so than consistent whining of black people. In retrospect, everyone has had to fend for themselves and jews are no different. And considering how many American lives were lost during WW2, I would suggest that Sharon keep his mouth shut unless he wants to piss off a large amount of veterans and their offspring. We discuss it as history and as a big cluster fuck and hope that it never happens again, not as the blame game in wich fingers have to consistently be pointed at someone.

Sharons' comments were not aimed at GI Joe. . . . the comments were aimed at the political establishment who for the last few years of the war allowed the Nazis to continue with their systematic extermination of the European Jewry. Not only did they do nothing to distrupt the mechanisims of mass murder but more often than not when European Jews managed to flea war torn Europe they were returned to the countries where they came from by the Allies - returned to certain death.

So calm down localizer, Sharon was not pissing of veterens of the war just their masters.

[Localizer]

The masters from the war had to recooperate from the losses they had taken as well.

It was extremely stupid for Sharon to have said that. Furthermore, I feel he's embarrased the jewish sector as a whole.

[face]

Re: ok, sharon was just plain stupid.

Sharon said Jews learned a lesson from the genocide that they can only rely on themselves.

EDIT: and america.



i just think it's funny that we all "accept" israel's establishment, after jews barely escaped genocide, on palestinian land, thereby displacing a whole other people. palestinians are now being ghettoized (yes, it is a word), and you'd think that history would serve as a lesson.

well, i'm hung over and sick so my argument isn't very sound...


i'm reading about early zionism in europe and russia (howard sachar's book), so i'm sure i'll have more to add later.

[davetlv]

Re: ok, sharon was just plain stupid.

i just think it's funny that we all "accept" israel's establishment, after jews barely escaped genocide, on palestinian land, thereby displacing a whole other people. palestinians are now being ghettoized (yes, it is a word), and you'd think that history would serve as a lesson.

well, i'm hung over and sick so my argument isn't very sound...


i'm reading about early zionism in europe and russia (howard sachar's book), so i'm sure i'll have more to add later.

A little of topic but i'll respond anyway!

The displacement of some of the native inhabitants of the land now called Israel was mainly out of self choice. With encouragement from the Mufti and other arab leaders in the region many people fled their homes on the promise that once the jews were 'forced' into the sea then they would return. Hardly something you can blame Israel for.

Also note that there were many arab who stayed within the borders of the state of israel and hold full israeli nationality today.

The ghettoization of Palestinians today does not just occur in the West Bank and Gaza strip; it also occurs in Jordan, Lebanon, Egypt and Syria - as well as other arab states.

No country, helped the Palestinians out of the refugee camps set up after 1948; the camps in the neighbouring countries have become defacto townships due to host nations not being prepared to intergrate the Palestinians - something which becomes the norm for refugees.

Finally, please remember that it was not Israel that set up the vast camps in Gaza and the West Bank; it was Egypt and Jordan - all you can realistically accuse Israel of is not treating those Palestinians in now israeli occupied territiories any better than the previous occupiers.

[face]

well i'm not accusing israel of anything per se (it did not exist until after all of the aliyahs took place). just pointing out what happened; that is, jews populating the area en masse caused [a series of] events and here we are today.

and i was in no way attempting to avoid blaming the neighboring arab states, especially jordan and egypt. palestinians were not in control of their own agenda until after 1967. nevertheless, doing the exact opposite, thereby absolving [what is now called] israel of any blame, is not "realistic" either.

one could easily say that in all of this tragedy, no one lifted a finger to help the palestinians. they just stood by and watched it all happen. [i wouldn't consider the actions of egypt, syria, jordan (or any other arab state) to have genuinely "helped" the palestinians.

[thesightless]

an anolgy from some guy on Imus yesterday was said as

the whole place(talking about middle east) is just a giant pile of gunpower, sooner or later, something is gonna be the match...... :?

[Yao]

Piss on it: it won't burn.

Sorry Dave, didn't mean to piss on your head Here's a towel.