Chinese Pianist Plays Anti-American Song at White House State Dinner

[88Mariner]

Re: Chinese Pianist Plays Anti-American Song at White House State Dinner

I see what you are saying but you can't deny the facts. The facts are that free minds are more innovative. China is a slave nation call it what you want. And rather than us pushing our ideals on them we are taking their ideals and bringing them to the west (lower wages, censorship, lower human rights, torture....)

Soon people that are in debt in the west will have to give a kidney or liver to get out of debt just like China. Don't be fooled into thinking that capitalism is to blame. It is east to do when times are bad. But taking the chinese model will only make it worse. Also a major problem in the US is that people aren't investing their money just like here in Canada. When I go around looking for more money for my product people are too afraid of the risk. Now if you are a government employee under 30 making $80,000 you almost should be forced into investing into startups. That should be law IMO because job security has taken the place of risk. Not hoarding it so you can buy a $400,000 Apartment closer to work. That is just stupid. Being a government employee you are a leach on the system. You should be forced to invest 10% of your money (If you make over $60,000) into startups that you see fit. 5% if you make less then $60,000

Innovation is at a gridlock. It takes roughly $1.5 million to bring a serious idea to the world (and that is just to start) global ideas take at least $25 million. And in todays world it must be global or it is nothing worth investing in. So the question is where do you get the $1.5 million from?

i have my own theory re: china. after hearing about Amy Chua's Tiger Mother book and reading up on it, i believe that an uncreative, controlled, and subservient childhood practically affords the chicoms perpetual rule over the chinese. they're the best worker bees ever. just like chua's kids will grow up and make some creative genius a lot of money by slaving away at his tasks.

[floridaorange]

Re: Chinese Pianist Plays Anti-American Song at White House State Dinner

never said that...i just wanted to demonstrate that things are not black and white...mostly grey in fact. A mix between the two is what is needed

^+1

Harvard University history professor Niall Ferguson compares the United States economy to complex systems in nature. The U.S. financial system may appear from the outside to be in equilibrium, says Ferguson, but it is actually "quite close to the edge of chaos."


Unrelated to this specific thread, but related in a broader sense:

[88Mariner]

Re: Chinese Pianist Plays Anti-American Song at White House State Dinner

niall furgeson explaining what I said above in so fewer words in a much more eloquent way. excellent.


edit: Tunisia yesterday. Egypt today. interesting. Next on the list....Marrakech and Alger. We shall see...


edit2: and if america falls...who will pick up the moral slack of western civ? Honestly, I can think of no one, and I'll defend that against anyone who would suggest a country that could.

Germany though...interestingly enough....might be on a course to do so. Too early to tell at this point. How ironic would that be!

edit3: http://fora.tv/2010/07/28/Niall_Ferg..._Edge_of_Chaos

[Shpira]

Re: Chinese Pianist Plays Anti-American Song at White House State Dinner

^^ Do you know why the EU was created?
third power block...so EU will survive even if the US fails... Europe has been through worse.

[vinnie97]

Re: Chinese Pianist Plays Anti-American Song at White House State Dinner

Of course, oligarchies trying to run the world into the ground are not the solution, but human nature and communism are incompatible because man is inherently selfish (and those entrusted to spread the wealth simply take it for themselves), which is why every regime that has traversed down that ideological path has historically become oppressive and most have collapsed. The FED and international bankers are indeed the primary spoiler of what was once good...even so, it ultimately comes down to the morals and conscience of individuals. When you have outright psychopaths in positions of power (financial, political), nothing good can come of it.

[Shpira]

Re: Chinese Pianist Plays Anti-American Song at White House State Dinner

man is inherently selfish

Opinion, Not fact and has often been used to bury the idea before even testing it...convenient for some huh? Funny how that works. Also if you are brought up in a society that values financial gain above all else...and watching programs that propagate buying shit you don't need with money you don't have...can do wonders to a child's mind.

[vinnie97]

Re: Chinese Pianist Plays Anti-American Song at White House State Dinner

Of course propaganda/marketing contributes to that, but to say man is not born selfish is asinine. Never heard of breaking the will of a child? Those whose wills haven't been broken will raise a fit until their parents stand firm on the issue, as painful as it might be. I have no idea if this study has been conducted on those who have been exposed to commercial marketing versus those who haven't (especially when it comes to toddlers where it likely wouldn't even apply due to lack of cognitive development). I just think you're being hopelessly optimistic (and bordering on delusional) if you think communism itself is a valid political ideology or framework, after all the instances throughout history where it has crumbled under its own good intentions. Frankly, it doesn't encourage anyone to be extraordinary if their reward won't be any greater than for those who expend the least amount of effort.

[Shpira]

Re: Chinese Pianist Plays Anti-American Song at White House State Dinner

As I said countless times in this thread already...i am not suggesting any ideology as an exclusive form for a basis of society...i am just saying that blindly refusing anything that benefits the society as a whole or deals with wealth distribution on some level as communist is silly.
Also i do not think that capitalism is a success as it should be judged on benefit to man kind rather than some countries exclusively...just because about 30% of the world live in good living conditions does not mean that our civilization is a success. We have in reality failed miserably in any sense if success can be measured objectively.

[vinnie97]

Re: Chinese Pianist Plays Anti-American Song at White House State Dinner

Ah well, the further one travels in that direction of wealth redistribution, the more disillusioned the producers become. I guess you can call it a continuum. ;-) No ideologies are 100% successful, as my worldview leads me to believe that man is a fallible creature (and thus his ideas are also wrought with imperfection)...some have succeeded more than others given the confines in which they operate, however. I definitely feel that a oligarchical group of international bankers and politicians who have been bought is no better than any commie regime (only difference is the number who have died directly as a result of their rule...seems the internationalist elites have a fair bit of blood on their hands as well).

[Shpira]

Re: Chinese Pianist Plays Anti-American Song at White House State Dinner

Ah well, the further one travels in that direction of wealth redistribution, the more disillusioned the producers become

taxes are a form of wealth redistribution.

[88Mariner]

Re: Chinese Pianist Plays Anti-American Song at White House State Dinner

As I said countless times in this thread already...i am not suggesting any ideology as an exclusive form for a basis of society...i am just saying that blindly refusing anything that benefits the society as a whole or deals with wealth distribution on some level as communist is silly.
Also i do not think that capitalism is a success as it should be judged on benefit to man kind rather than some countries exclusively...just because about 30% of the world live in good living conditions does not mean that our civilization is a success. We have in reality failed miserably in any sense if success can be measured objectively.

capitalism not a success? are you trollin again? every country on this planet =/= civilization.

we've got the model. we've got a good set of laws. anyone can fuckin copy them and ride to success. the only reason why capitalism has not been more of a success is because of totalitarian ideologies and its sympathizers. oh, and religion gets in the way too.

[Shpira]

Re: Chinese Pianist Plays Anti-American Song at White House State Dinner

lol yeah right. . .you end up with wealth being concentrated to a minority whose interest is to keep everyone else in fear and uneducated so that they can make even more money and cause even more inequality. They create global monopolies through corporations that penetrate every living second of most human lives in the world and destroy our planet in the process...ride my cock to success more like. there is not a single fucking thing thats good about capitalism on its own...and to say that it hasn't been successful because of totalitarian ideologies is just plain wrong...its a flawed system just like anything else that was used to base our society on.

You can argue it promotes individualism and bla bla bla...but those are all WRONG values. We should be working for a unified world and (laugh if you will) inter planetary travel...developing high end technologies that will make daily life of a human easier...instead we are focused on short term gains and end up being unhappy and unfulfilled...

look whatever...you can call me idealistic, communist or whatever you like...I base all my opinions on what I have read...and I cannot believe that the world is filled with shallow idiots...they say when you cant say something clever use quotes and who better than my main man Bob ..."emancipate yourself from mental slavery none but ourselves can free our mind"

On that note I think I am done with this thread...this is what i mean...our backgrounds are just so different...i don't think any consensus is possible.

[88Mariner]

Re: Chinese Pianist Plays Anti-American Song at White House State Dinner

lol yeah right. . .you end up with wealth being concentrated to a minority whose interest is to keep everyone else in fear

really? sounds like that's just your opinion rather than tethered to some actual fact.

and uneducated

the rich keep people from going to school? lmao

so that they can make even more money and cause even more inequality.

they can make more money on the backs of uneducated workers? sounds more like a liability to me.

They create global monopolies

name them.

through corporations

name them, too.

that penetrate every living second of most human lives in the world

i.e. products that people find worth purchasing to benefit their lives. whether it be an allen and heath mixer or twinkies or penciles or lamps or ikea chairs etc....

and destroy our planet in the process...

how so? funny how the most polluted places on the planet are found in countries who have piss-poor property rights (if at all).

ride my cock to success more like.

ok?

there is not a single fucking thing thats good about capitalism on its own...

right. no private businesses or individual should ever be merited for the successes and benefits of his innovations and ideas. all the good that has come in the last two centuries have been derived from government bureaucrats.

and to say that it hasn't been successful because of totalitarian ideologies is just plain wrong...

of course not. in your mind, capitalism exists in totalitarian countries. somehow. someway. that's the only way you could have possibly made that statement. your wires are crossed. the great thing apart from you being wrong is that the drive to create wealth, to keep it, to innovate and produce goods and services valued by consumers has been the main drive to modernization on this planet.

its a flawed system just like anything else that was used to base our society on.

a flawed system that has never truly been realized on this planet. do you realize that POVERTY is the standard, and capitalism is the mechanism that has brought people OUT of poverty. but of course it's flawed to you. because it respects individual rights and more importantly, property rights, from which individual rights are created. no economic rights exist without the right to private property.

You can argue it promotes individualism and bla bla bla...

i don't think the argument needs to be made. ask anyone who has ever lived in the soviet union or east germany how much the felt like cattle. perhaps you should read Solzhenitsyn.

but those are all WRONG values.

according to who - you? your wish to deny identity to each man woman and child is a testament of the perverseness of totalitarianism. Indeed, cattle.

We should be working for a unified world and (laugh if you will) inter planetary travel

and those who dissent? are they to be sent to re-education camps? or simply dispensed with to the mass graves? at some point you're going to have to figure out that this is the end game for your dystopian future.

...developing high end technologies that will make daily life of a human easier...

who is going to do this??????? corporations? lmao. or government? but if only government produces goods...that's a monopoly on those goods...can't have that either!

instead we are focused on short term gains and end up being unhappy and unfulfilled...

perhaps you are. perhaps many are. not everyone though. man being severed from his family and community through the terrible misandry and pussification of men in the Western front has done a good job at producing this result - if man has no children of his own to care for, no wife to return to and no community that gives a damn about him, why should he care about long-term generational health when he can simply return home every day and put on the xbox, or stream porn or whatever else.

are you suggesting that man should view himself as an asset to be used and dispensed with to better the country? then man is not an individual but a tool for the greater good. it's no wonder you hate the notions of individualism: if man has an identity, he is not likely to subsist for the whims of government bureaucrats. strip him of an identity, like a slave, and you'll get your fun little utopia. history repeats for those who refuse to study it.

look whatever...you can call me idealistic

ok.

communist

you are, but yet, you hesitate to enjoy such a label. why?

I base all my opinions on what I have read...and I cannot believe that the world is filled with shallow idiots...

Idiots because they don't genuflect to your nightmare? The very essence of your beliefs requires the severance of man's nature from man himself. who, after reading the things you have likely read, and not coming to such a conclusion, is the idiot, then?

they say when you cant say something clever use quotes and who better than my main man Bob ..."emancipate yourself from mental slavery none but ourselves can free our mind"

explain.

On that note I think I am done with this thread...

no you're not.

this is what i mean...our backgrounds are just so different...i don't think any consensus is possible.

my background does not inform my views on rights. not in the slightest. but it seems like your own identity, surprisingly still intact despite your beliefs, does in fact mold your beliefs. well, as soon as we can re-educate you to stop having beliefs altogether (it's just detrimental to the achievement of the greater good) we will be well on our way to greener utopian pastures.

by the way

consensus requires compromise. compromise requires a lesser evil to prevail. and lesser evil heaped upon lesser evil does not, in fact, create a utopia. why is it so difficult to let man be free? why can't you unshackle man form servitude to the government?

[Shpira]

Re: Chinese Pianist Plays Anti-American Song at White House State Dinner

[QUOTE]

really? sounds like that's just your opinion rather than tethered to some actual fact.

its a fact...as I said before its not y job to educate people...google is a powerful tool and I just typed "concentration of wealth over time" try doing the same...

the rich keep people from going to school? lmao

the "rich" don't people from going to school but they dictate popular values through mass media outlets...and you get a culture where its "cool" not to study and be a retarded prick who knows nothing about anything. again not an opinion

they can make more money on the backs of uneducated workers? sounds more like a liability to me.

that is not so much about making money as it is about population control. survival comes first. Also you need simple people to do shit jobs. . .as simple as that.

name them.

name them, too.

i.e. products that people find worth purchasing to benefit their lives. whether it be an allen and heath mixer or twinkies or penciles or lamps or ikea chairs etc....

opinion and I disagree...if it were true the west would not produce such huge quantities of rubbish each year...there is need and then there is want. Need is simple and want can be easily manipulated...

how so? funny how the most polluted places on the planet are found in countries who have piss-poor property rights (if at all).

Because they use the western model.


ok?

right. no private businesses or individual should ever be merited for the successes and benefits of his innovations and ideas. all the good that has come in the last two centuries have been derived from government bureaucrats.

people benefited from their work in pretty much any society...even in your so called communist countries. perhaps not as much as they did in the west that is true but they benefited. So that's not exclusive to capitalism.

of course not. in your mind, capitalism exists in totalitarian countries. somehow. someway. that's the only way you could have possibly made that statement. your wires are crossed. the great thing apart from you being wrong is that the drive to create wealth, to keep it, to innovate and produce goods and services valued by consumers has been the main drive to modernization on this planet.

no actually...you are wrong here. War has been the main drive for most modernization on the planet.

a flawed system that has never truly been realized on this planet. do you realize that POVERTY is the standard, and capitalism is the mechanism that has brought people OUT of poverty. but of course it's flawed to you. because it respects individual rights and more importantly, property rights, from which individual rights are created. no economic rights exist without the right to private property.

sorry which people are we talking about here exactly?

i don't think the argument needs to be made. ask anyone who has ever lived in the soviet union or east germany how much the felt like cattle. perhaps you should read Solzhenitsyn.

Have read...and I was born in a Communist country.

according to who - you? your wish to deny identity to each man woman and child is a testament of the perverseness of totalitarianism. Indeed, cattle.

in short yes and no. according to my prediction where we all headed...hope I am wrong.

and those who dissent? are they to be sent to re-education camps? or simply dispensed with to the mass graves? at some point you're going to have to figure out that this is the end game for your dystopian future.

LOL

I don't claim to have the answers I just claim to address the questions...which is more than you seem to be doing..

who is going to do this??????? corporations? lmao. or government? but if only government produces goods...that's a monopoly on those goods...can't have that either!

the problem is that you find this laughable. That is the main problem. Over the last 50 years your own government COULD have made its citizens quality of life better instead it chose to invade a bunch of other countries, segregate a race for half of the last century, destroy and rape the developing world for resources...etc (UK and others did the same but not quite on the same scale.






perhaps you are. perhaps many are. not everyone though. man being severed from his family and community through the terrible misandry and pussification of men in the Western front has done a good job at producing this result - if man has no children of his own to care for, no wife to return to and no community that gives a damn about him, why should he care about long-term generational health when he can simply return home every day and put on the xbox, or stream porn or whatever else.

are you suggesting that man should view himself as an asset to be used and dispensed with to better the country? then man is not an individual but a tool for the greater good. it's no wonder you hate the notions of individualism: if man has an identity, he is not likely to subsist for the whims of government bureaucrats. strip him of an identity, like a slave, and you'll get your fun little utopia. history repeats for those who refuse to study it.

No but its something we should all aim for. You will die, I will die, we will all die and the only thing that will remain is what we have done in our life...if you have spent your life jacking off then...you leave a bunch of dirty tissues behind...if you cured cancer or found a way to purify sea water...you saved lives...at the end of the day its a personal choice. You can help people or be a dick...up to you.



ok.



you are, but yet, you hesitate to enjoy such a label. why?

Idiots because they don't genuflect to your nightmare? The very essence of your beliefs requires the severance of man's nature from man himself. who, after reading the things you have likely read, and not coming to such a conclusion, is the idiot, then?

mens nature according to whom? is it nurture or nature?

explain.

i always liked Bob because he puts extremely complex things in very simple terms. it cannot be any more simpler...read more?

no you're not.

guess i am not

my background does not inform my views on rights. not in the slightest. but it seems like your own identity, surprisingly still intact despite your beliefs, does in fact mold your beliefs. well, as soon as we can re-educate you to stop having beliefs altogether (it's just detrimental to the achievement of the greater good) we will be well on our way to greener utopian pastures.

by the way

consensus requires compromise. compromise requires a lesser evil to prevail. and lesser evil heaped upon lesser evil does not, in fact, create a utopia. why is it so difficult to let man be free? why can't you unshackle man form servitude to the government?

not necessarily...if men were educated to a higher standard...consensus can be reached through logic. There should be no debate on whether or not we need to cut emissions and care for our planet for example. there are some clear cut things that we can begin with and work our way from there...but instead we kill each other for shit...no other way to put it...money as if we don't have enough.

i am not going to go out of my way to make this happen because i think enough people have died throughout our history trying to get these kind of ideas across...and I am not an idiot. when I was slightly younger...as early as 4-5 years ago I honestly believed in change. now i don't. These things should happen but they won't. Because people are content with their shit and busy trying to get more shit.

[88Mariner]

Re: Chinese Pianist Plays Anti-American Song at White House State Dinner

1. Disney does not control your life. It doesn't control mine. And it doesn't control anyone else's. Nor does any of that other shit on there. People have a choice to consume or not. You treat humans like animals, which is only ironic because that's ultimately what you want them to become under your strange delusion of utopian terror.

2. You have not shown where wealthy people make it their daily priority to keep people in fear. Strangely, you'd prefer to give government the power to use fear AND force which really makes no sense to me. If a human can do it as a private citizen, that person can do it as a government agent. How you treat a human in one sector of society as having a completely different nature than a person working in the government is absurd. Best of all, your avatar speaks paragraphs of your ignorance.

3. Population Control? Really? So you're not much different than vinnie or runningman afterall. If you believe that the wealthy people of this planet control governments, too, then why do you seek to increase the size of government, and thus, the magnitude of control these so-called fear-mongering rich people have? Afterall, if there was NO government, they couldn't do jack shit. Why you promote the destruction of freedom as opposed to expanding man's natural state of freedom makes me think you're actually content with the fear-mongering machine. How long have you been suffering cognitive dissonance?

4. Need? Want? You don't need a computer. So why not toss that out and stop posting? You don't need nice clothes. You don't need that cell phone of your or a car. You don't need a lawn, a nice house, a watch or any of the other shit you own in your flat. Unless you're wearing hand me downs and are living a standard of life that monk's live, then you're a hypocrite. And yet, who is to decide what is a 'want'? Who is to decide what is a 'need'? If I'm hungry, will you tell me that I'm not allowed to eat a burger when a piece of chicken would suffice? And I hope you don't have any alcohol at your place, because that's definitely a 'want'. Tell you what, toss out your computer, and then we'll really get down to the nitty gritty of what can be labeled as 'need' and 'want'.

5. Yeah, i guess people 'benefited' from communism. Only those who worked for the party benefited. Everyone else is second-class or worse. How you have yet to realize that to implement your communist model requires people with special privileges to 'maintain' those who do not is concerning. If taken as a whole, i would think that your collective beliefs would ultimately lead to some form of anarchism and yet, it does not.

6. My government Could have done that. And yet, you want a larger fuck-shit-up government. If my government could do that, then ANY government could do way, way worse. The worst of which would be achieved under your model. Oh wait, the communists didn't fight wars, take over whole countries (which the US has not done), then didn't starve the fuck out of foreigners to feed their own.

Why is it in your head that government exists to coddle man from cradle to grave? Governments don't exist to wipe your ass. They don't exist to put food on your table. They don't produce wealth. They only destory wealth. They destroy lives. Government's do all of the worst things in the name of perpetuating itself and centralizing its power. And yet, fucked-up as it is, you want to make it even worse.

7. Your recommendation to become a slave to another so that we may better society is probably the most depraved view of humanity one can possibly have. Guess who is going to cure cancer? someone who can make money off spending all that time on it. Guess who is going to purify sea water? the company that can figure a way to do it cheaply and better than it's competitor. Who is going to create flight? Airline travel? Cars? Vinyl records? Toasters? Lightbulbs? The answer is ALWAYS the person who can do it better, cheaper, and more efficient than anyone else while not going bankrupt and NEVER "the government will make it"

People will be a dick whether you like it or not. That is their right. People also benefit this world with their ideas and innovation. That is also their right. But that's a question for each man to decide. Not you. Not a president. Not a dictator. Not some agency bureaucrat or appellate judge.

8. Higher education produces logic. Just like one would appeal to authority. Care for our planet? Go ask the ex-soviet satellite countries how much they care for the planet. Ask the chinese. and so on and so forth. Before our ship sails to greener more eco-friendly waters, don't you think everyone should be on board? Why demand that one country who has made gains in cleaning up the environment be punished, while dozens of other countries continue to treat your sacred planet like dogshit? You should be telling this to everyone else, least of all the united states.

Consensus reached by logic? There's no consensus on what the best topping of pizza is. Perhaps we could arrive there by logic too? Perhaps it would take a few years of graduate school to help us acquire the right critical thinking skills to conclude that the best topping on a pizza is mushrooms?

People kill each other because they're savages. People who kill in the name of government are bringing peace. Right?