Some very basic political questions I need clarity on

[GregWhelan]

Very basic stuff Im afraid but sometimes I find it very hard to get my head around certain idealogies (such as the elasticity concept in economics - economics students will know what I mean!).

1) What is a 'hawk' i.e. when I read journals and it says '.....certain US hawks commented on .......'

2) If you are on the right what is your outlook

3) If you are on the left what is your outlook

Thanks anyone!

[rubyraks]

1. war mongerers, but seriously the thought here is that military might is a tool to use to enforce and spread your values. Hawks are usually conservative.

2. conservative - usually socially traditional, strong on military and police, small government, fiscally responsible (here in the US, this seems to have been forgotten), free market thinkers, anti-taxes

3. liberal - socially non-traditional, bigger government role in social issues (ie. welfare, unemployment, social security), stronger/more focus on social issues than foreign ones, have less issue with expanding the size of government as long as it's for the good of the people, have less trust in a free market so prefer regulatory measures

I'm completely overgeneralizing here, but as I understand it these are some of the major beliefs. Also what is termed liberal or conservative in one country may be entirely different in another.

[mixu]

Re: Some very basic political questions I need clarity on

And the opposite of hawks being 'doves'...

[face]

in even more general terms, i would say that a conservative is someone who is opposed to change and promotes the status quo; conversely, a liberal is someone not opposed to, and more likely for, change and abandoning the traditional way of life.


hawk: see dick cheney.

[GregWhelan]

Thank you guys,that has cleared my outlook a lot!I just get confused sometimes when I read authors and they start talking in their political jargon - now I can be sure on what I am reading!

[mylexicon]

Re: Some very basic political questions I need clarity on

Very basic stuff Im afraid but sometimes I find it very hard to get my head around certain idealogies (such as the elasticity concept in economics - economics students will know what I mean!).

1) What is a 'hawk' i.e. when I read journals and it says '.....certain US hawks commented on .......'

2) If you are on the right what is your outlook

3) If you are on the left what is your outlook

Thanks anyone!

Haha. These questions are nearly impossible to answer definitely. I'll see if I can add to the above info.

1) The terms hawks and doves either started or came to prominence during
the Vietnam era. Hawks were people who wanted to see the war through until
the end. Doves were people who wanted us to evacuate. In our increasingly
partisan political environment hawk has come to mean evil war monger (to liberals) and dove has come to mean pussy-pacifist (to conservatives).
The words are recklessly applied to people today mainly to resurrect old emotions
for political gain.

Synopsis of Below:
Libertarian and Conservatives = Republicans = Limited Government
Progressives and Socialists = Democrats = Stonger Government

That is the main difference and has been since the country was founded.
Kind of funny 200 years of "progress" and we still bicker about the same old thing.
If you want an in depth explanation read below. I write about this stuff all
day long for class so its no chore and most of it is academically correct.


2 + 3) These are nearly impossible to answer because the political spectrum
in the united states is not 1 dimentional but 2 dimentional. Your political ideology is usually determined by your beliefs in two fields: social legislation and economic legislation. Right wingers are typically conservatives
and libertarians. The left is generally made up by socialists and progressives. The main difference between the two is belief in the role of government. That's the way is was when the colonies were founded too. The
federalists wanted a stronger federal government (Alexander Hamilton) and
the Democrats (Thomas Jefferson) wanted states rights. Today Democrats
are more like Federalists and Republicans are more like Democrats. The
switch occured sometime after the civil war; which explains why Lincoln (a Republican)
was fighting to have the federal government suppress states rights antebellum.

Right
The right is a diverse group. Thats why Republicans have Pat Robertson (evangelical) and Penn (of Penn and Teller) in their party. One is a conservative
and one is a libertarian yet they both vote Republican because they share
one common bond: limited government. Conservatives believe the government
should take a hike unless some social issue (mainly moral issues) needs to
be addressed with legislaiton. Libertarians (like me) want the federal goverment to get the fuck out. If Washington doesn't have the funds it can't
fight wars and blow our money on stupid shit we don't want. Generally we would rather take our chances in an unregulated, unsafe world than leave ourselves
at the mercy of corrupt federal officials. Conservatives (like my parents) generally think we're nuts b/c we want to legalize drugs, and relax moral
legislation. Republicans specifically libertarians are known as classical Liberals because limited government and individual human rights were
revolutionary in the age of monarchs and colonies.

Left
The left has progressives and socialists....basically the same political beliefs
just in different intensity. Progressives are people who allow
the government to dable in everything in order to solve human problems (Clintonians).
A little pollution legislation here a little welfare there. They allow the
to tweak around on things in order to serve the "common good". Generally they believe the fed gov. can be used for accomplishing good. Socialists/
Liberals/Fucking greenies are the evil ones. Lol. Obviously this section will
be biased but i will describe their beliefs accurately. Generally socialists like
strong central planning. They want more legislation. They want environmental legislation, auto legislation, business legislation. They believe the
solution to nearly everything is law and more funding. Their are a few exceptions
like weed and abortion.

Complications
There are wierd anomolies like Dixiecrats (i.e. Zell Miller). Old school dems
who are prowar and anti federal government but still vote democrat b/c they
were taught by their parents that Republicans are no good carpet-baggers.
Then there are the crazy, tense, irrational racial problems that plague our
country and have interesting political effects. Plus there are interesting alliances
that are strange. Like when fem-nazis and conservatives join forces to curb
pornography or when greenies and libertarians sack up to legalize drugs.
Politics can get pretty strange sometimes.

[toasty]

People on the right are warmongering fascists who don't care about anyone but themselves.

People on the left are complete flakes who live in an unrealistic utopia where everyone hugs trees and sings "Kumbaya."

I might be overgeneralizing, though.

:wink:

[timkell]

in even more general terms, i would say that a conservative is someone who is opposed to change and promotes the status quo; conversely, a liberal is someone not opposed to, and more likely for, change and abandoning the traditional way of life.

In politics, this is incorrect. It has nothing to do with status quo.

A conservative believes that, in general, there should be less government in all aspects of our lives. Laissez-Faire is a conservative attitude.

A liberal believes that, in general, government can be used to improve the lives of all people, so they prefer more government.

That's what they mean. Now, look at our options, and you will see we don't have ANY conservative options. Republicans somehow have a conservative Rep, but they created the EPA and now the Dept of Homeland Security. They also want government intruding in every private aspect of our lives to make sure we behave.

Dems, on the other hand, generally keep government out of our private lives, but love the social programs.

If you're a true conservative, you're only option is to vote Libertarian.

[GregWhelan]

While we're on the subject of answering political questions,what the hell does gubernatorial mean?I alwas read that word around US election time,but I've never grasped it's meaning?

[toasty]

"gubernatorial" means "pertaining to the governor" the same way "presidential" means "relating to the president." When you see something referring to "the gubernatorial election," it simply refers to the campaign to be the governor of a state.

[thesightless]

far left liberals(dreamers) want to live in a ultra happy and free to do whatever world

far right conservatives (pyschos) want to be in a ultra safe-ultra sterile world where anything offensive or harmful is banned.

we need to meet somewhere in the middle. both aprties have positives and negatives, its up to you to decided which are which.

personally i love low taxes and safety, but also love freedom of speech and civil and human liberties. also i am very much a ""greenpeace" kinda person. i say we should just ignore the mid east and go to alternative fuel like nuclear and solar. leave the mid east alone to fight amoungst themselves. and legalize pot. you aint harming anyone but yourself by blazing. on the other ""famous issue"" i hope no one ever makes abortion a free thing. if you cant feed em, dont breed em.

[mylexicon]

far right conservatives (pyschos) want to be in a ultra safe-ultra sterile world where anything offensive or harmful is banned.

Ultra-safe.... You mean all those NRA members who believe we should
all own automatic weapons want things safe. lol. Ultra-sterile is def. right
though.

I think this whole post is really fascinating becuase it shows exactly what
American politics have digressed to. We started off with no government and
we began to realize that no government isn't really a desirable situation--so
the government got bigger. People who want the cops to beat criminal ass, keep shit off of public airwaves, and stop drugs think those
government expansions are great. People who hug trees, think that everyone
should have plenty of money, and want corporations controlled love
that type of legislation.

Here we sit today, a solid 60-70% of this country hates the damn government
but we are kept idle by politicians exploiting our past. Conservatives tell
their constituency that voting democrat will allow vile things on tv, huge taxes,
and millions of illegal immigrants. Democrats tell their constituency that voting
republican will destroy our forests, cause our poor to die horrible deaths, and
cause minorities to be oppressed.

It is a glorious catch-22. People are so afraid of a world without regulation
that they can't bring themselves to reform the government they all hate.
Every year politicians promise to end government corruption. Every year
they fail but they manage to write more legislation.
It teaches us all a valuable lesson. Life is imperfect and has great hardship
and great reward. We have two groups of people seeking freedom and
fearing uncertainty. Both can have what they want, they just need to realize
they can't improve their own lives by focusing on what other people do.

We really need to stop this madness and revive the ideas of libertarianism.

[thesightless]

we need to go back to the barter system.

and im am 100% seroius when i say this, and frankly ill admit its sad.
we need to stop having children being born into pverty, somehow. and welfare isnt the answer. it never will be, the whole idea of welfare is wrong. im sick of paying new york so ppl like ODB can go take my money and do nothin. limit welfare to 2 months lifetime. force ppl to get a haricut and a job. its the only way to start. :? (braces for impact)

[mylexicon]

i'm all for abolishing welfare.......but i'm not so sure we can end transfer
payments. The only reason i get pissed about welfare is b/c they don't
have to work to get it. If i ran the show, welfare would be like the CCC--
back-breaking labor for pay that allows sustinence. That way people would
try harder to get off welfare. If they can't do back-breaking labor then
maybe, just maybe, they could collect without working.

[DaStottman]

To add to 'hawk,' a 'chicken hawk' is someone big on war who does not actually fight himself.