Obamacare is SO fantastic, Wiener (a former supporter) wants to OPT OUT

[clintlove]

Re: Obamacare is SO fantastic, Wiener (a former supporter) wants to OPT OUT

The fact I would be punished by increase of personal taxes for not buying into the government healthcare plan is complete bullshit and most definitely a violation of my constitutional rights. I personally don't want to be forced to participate in something provided by the government, much less give them control of my health.

All that needs to be done to save the healthcare system is allow companies to sell insurance across state lines. Prices would become competitive, you would see a decrease in costs, more americans could afford it and be covered In addition, this would create those jobs we've been talking about since late 2008. Insurance companies would grow and prosper while aiding to the growth of the economy.

[DIDI]

Re: Obamacare is SO fantastic, Wiener (a former supporter) wants to OPT OUT

It's even more astonishing that you like the bureaucratization of health insurance and somehow think this law actually lowers costs. Oh well, it takes all kinds.

Certainly does here. Yours costs more than twice as much as ours, both as a cost per capita and as a percentage of GDP. Your infant mortality is higher, you life expectancy is lower. I live with a universal healthcare system and it works well. Yours couldn't get much worse

I found this, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_health_care I'm amazed at how many countries have a universal health care system in varying forms. The US is way behind. Influence of big Pharma perhaps ??

[vinnie97]

Re: Obamacare is SO fantastic, Wiener (a former supporter) wants to OPT OUT

Oh boy, Wikipedia. Stats themselves can be misrepresented, so I always take them with a grain of salt, especially since there are too many variables at play (do you realize just how bad and systemic illegal immigration is here aka anchor babies? Who do you think should pay for that? Me, as a legal citizen?). And Florida, we fundamentally disagree...your vision of the nanny state frightens me. Regulation, fair enough...not the socialist control that the advocates of this system are trying to achieve.

Finally, Didi, one size doesn't fit all. I only need to point to the Romneycare disaster going down in MA to prove that. Bureaucrats with a socialist bent can do more damage than good. I also find it particularly tiresome that you think you know so much about the American healthcare system, probably based on some biased article(s) you've read with stats that have been twisted to match the author's political ideology.

[Shpira]

Re: Obamacare is SO fantastic, Wiener (a former supporter) wants to OPT OUT

appalling

[DIDI]

Re: Obamacare is SO fantastic, Wiener (a former supporter) wants to OPT OUT

Oh boy, Wikipedia. Stats themselves can be misrepresented, so I always take them with a grain of salt, especially since there are too many variables at play (do you realize just how bad and systemic illegal immigration is here aka anchor babies? Who do you think should pay for that? Me, as a legal citizen?). And Florida, we fundamentally disagree...your vision of the nanny state frightens me. Regulation, fair enough...not the socialist control that the advocates of this system are trying to achieve.

Finally, Didi, one size doesn't fit all. I only need to point to the Romneycare disaster going down in MA to prove that. Bureaucrats with a socialist bent can do more damage than good. I also find it particularly tiresome that you think you know so much about the American healthcare system, probably based on some biased article(s) you've read with stats that have been twisted to match the author's political ideology.

There, there little boy, nothing to be scared of there

And you know about ours ???? Which is what I was talking about. There is a good chance I do know more about yours than you do. I do research, you spout endless slogans and denials.

There isn't a one size fits all approach. In fact I doubt there are two the same. You chose not to see the word "varying" What's that saying?? " there are none so blind as those that will not see "

My vision isn't a "vision" , it's a reality of a working health care system that costs us far less, allows more of our babies to live, and lets them live longer.

But why did I assume this could be a reasonable discussion about healthcare.?? What was I thinking ??? Forgot where I was for a moment.

I suppose I have to accept that this forum really has no sharing of knowledge any more It's become a place for people to shout hate.

[Shpira]

Re: Obamacare is SO fantastic, Wiener (a former supporter) wants to OPT OUT

There, there little boy, nothing to be scared of there

And you know about ours ???? Which is what I was talking about. There is a good chance I do know more about yours than you do. I do research, you spout endless slogans and denials.

There isn't a one size fits all approach. In fact I doubt there are two the same. You chose not to see the word "varying" What's that saying?? " there are none so blind as those that will not see "

My vision isn't a "vision" , it's a reality of a working health care system that costs us far less, allows more of our babies to live, and lets them live longer.

But why did I assume this could be a reasonable discussion about healthcare.?? What was I thinking ??? Forgot where I was for a moment.

I suppose I have to accept that this forum really has no sharing of knowledge any more It's become a place for people to shout hate.

yes, unfortunately

[vinnie97]

Re: Obamacare is SO fantastic, Wiener (a former supporter) wants to OPT OUT

There, there little boy, nothing to be scared of there

And you know about ours ???? Which is what I was talking about. There is a good chance I do know more about yours than you do. I do research, you spout endless slogans and denials.

There isn't a one size fits all approach. In fact I doubt there are two the same. You chose not to see the word "varying" What's that saying?? " there are none so blind as those that will not see "

My vision isn't a "vision" , it's a reality of a working health care system that costs us far less, allows more of our babies to live, and lets them live longer.

But why did I assume this could be a reasonable discussion about healthcare.?? What was I thinking ??? Forgot where I was for a moment.

I suppose I have to accept that this forum really has no sharing of knowledge any more It's become a place for people to shout hate.

I live here, so scurry away with your condescension, "little girl." You were indeed commenting on American healthcare, about how abysmal it apparently is compared to what you have, so please spare me the denials. And welcome to ignore. If you equate disagreement with hate, you're not worth my time.

Same with your condescension, Shpira. The point at which the growing number of entitlements outweighs the edicts in the constitution (i.e. the mandate, aka a direct demand on how one chooses to maintain their health via purchase of a product from a supposedly private company, which has very little to do with the regulation of economic activity) here in the states is the point that all hope is lost (I sure as hell don't want a "progressive constitution," which some are actively championing for today). What has been proposed in this healthcare law is 1) unconstitutional, 2) unsustainable given our current debt loads and 3) disfavored by over half of the population (depending on what poll you rely upon). Its demands will break the backs of private insurance (aside from those who are on costly cadillac plans and Congress, of course, who are not bound by the laws they've passed for the rest of us) and a single-payer system will unfold, with all of the red tape, bureaucracy and inefficiencies inherent in such a system. Waiting lists will be lengthy, the quality of care will suffer. If this doesn't ultimately happen under the system being imposed, may God strike me down.

Didi, you are impossible to converse with on this topic, however, since your system is perfect and apparently anything I mention is a slogan or denial (you completely ignored the fact I mentioned about illegal immigration and the costs associated with anchor babies).

Good riddance.

[Shpira]

Re: Obamacare is SO fantastic, Wiener (a former supporter) wants to OPT OUT

Same with your condescension, Shpira

There is a first time for everything.

lol

[clintlove]

Re: Obamacare is SO fantastic, Wiener (a former supporter) wants to OPT OUT

I fixed healthcare a couple posts ago.

[vinnie97]

Re: Obamacare is SO fantastic, Wiener (a former supporter) wants to OPT OUT

^And TORT reform. ALL of these were sensible solutions, but no, we have this bankrupting boondoggle that will help crash the dollar oh so much quicker.

[Shpira]

Re: Obamacare is SO fantastic, Wiener (a former supporter) wants to OPT OUT

In November 2009, it was reported that Christian Science movement had lobbied for the inclusion of a provision in the proposed legislation for U.S. healthcare reform that would allow for insurance reimbursement of affirmative prayers, including those practiced by Christian Scientists.[31][32] The legislation was sponsored by Sens. Orrin Hatch (R-Utah), Tom Harkin (D-Iowa), John Kerry (D-Mass.), and the late Ted Kennedy (D-Mass.), the latter two representing the state where the church is headquartered. The House version of the bill ultimately was stripped of this provision, but it was reintroduced in the Senate version in December;[33] furthermore, the Senate version of the bill would prohibit discrimination against "religious and spiritual health care". The news of the provision stirred criticism from both pro- and anti-healthcare reform commentators, including those who may possess religious inclinations,[34] and aroused the greatest criticism from those who feared a breach of the separation of church and state.[citation needed]

this sounds better lol

[floridaorange]

Re: Obamacare is SO fantastic, Wiener (a former supporter) wants to OPT OUT

I've attended these weekend long healthcare for poor families in central florida located where the Orlando Magic play, only to see lines like you wouldn't believe... The entire arena full of healthcare professionals giving care to people with all different levels of healthcare needs. Attend something like that and then talk to me about how healthcare does not need to be overhauled in America. Sure it's great if you have money and a job or no pre-existing conditions. But if you are lower class or working middle class and have any pre-existing conditions you're fucked.

[vinnie97]

Re: Obamacare is SO fantastic, Wiener (a former supporter) wants to OPT OUT

There is county care for that. By the same token, one shouldn't saddle self-employed lower class who don't have insurance with new mandates or penalties for not subscribing to some bureaucrat-laden unconstitutional vision of what's best for them. The govt. is about to default (this doesn't disappear because one simply chooses to ignore it and is the reason most international bases need closing with all soldiers returned home)...do tell how they're going to be even able to continue forwarding current Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security and welfare payments (all of which need reforming) much less providing healthcare insurance for millions more.

I don't know why some have such great difficulty in differentiating natural rights versus positive rights, nor do they seem to understand how the latter can be siphoned away by a govt. entity because they are created and provided by man and not inalienable. This is ideological and those who oppose rather not fall more deeply into this vision of liberty-stifling socialism/crony capitalism. Yes, this started back during the Great Depression #1 (#2 just around the corner) after the FED restrained the money supply and FDR had to follow up with the New Deal monstrosity. I have seen little evidence that this new bill reduces costs, but I have seen evidence of over 1000 waivers being issued for 2011 and the prospect of compliance raising costs for employers and those who may visit a doctor once a year.

PS. No one said it's perfect as is, but wrecking it further where rationing is almost guaranteed to become the norm for everyone but only the UPPER class is asking for trouble.

PPS. What good is govt.-provided "free" or "affordable" healthcare insurance if you can't afford your next meal due to inflation or massive unemployment?

[vinnie97]

Re: Obamacare is SO fantastic, Wiener (a former supporter) wants to OPT OUT

Louisiana, about to get punked: Medicaid costs set to rise and Louisianians set to lose their private plans