Reality is unravelling for Bush

[brakada]

We should just place some odds on this thing and start taking bets. What do you guys think?

I'm betting a dollar on Kerry. What are the odds?

[davetlv]

Civic_zen/mylexicon, thanks for the info on the working of the electoral college. It still doesn't really answer my one basic question: how can today, in an age of mass communication, can one of the worlds greatest 'democracies' have an election where the loser of the popular vote wins?

I don't want to get into the Bush arguement, because at the the end of the day he was elected by a system which is in place, what i am questioning is the system. In one of the documents, it talks about the different possibilities which were open to chosing the president. Certainly, for the time at least, the electoral college probably made sense. The reason given for your founding fathers not to have a directly elected president is "because they feared that without sufficient information about candidates from outside their State, people would naturally vote for a "favorite son" from their own State or region." Surely this arguement can't be used today?

So why stay with the college? Is there a movement in the US calling for direct elections on the premise of first past the post?

[FM]

To change or overhaul the system now as we know it would take more years and dollars then would be worth it/available, or would get blocked by attornies, lawyers, congressional officers, etc. and hung out to dry at nearly every pass.

The fact alone of trying to make a "universal voting system" electronically-wise that every state would use to vote for a president, then quickly being discovered that the system was so easily hackable, it makes it ridiculous to really even try...but the risk payoff for some companies would be more money then they could possibly fathom... :?

People will make mistakes no matter what system is used, and it's the object to learn from those and try not to let them happen again.

[sakio pod]

GO BUSH.. ALL THE WAY

[Galapidate]

GO BUSH.. ALL THE WAY

It amazes me how in a 4 year period a president could create so much destruction and yet people still back him up.

[FM]

We should just place some odds on this thing and start taking bets. What do you guys think?

I'm betting a dollar on Kerry. What are the odds?

can't get 'em from Vegas; illegal to gamble on the presidential elctions...

52Bet.com has Bush @ 10-13; everyone else 11-10...

(http://205.134.167.60/lines/lines.cg...&sport=755)

[mylexicon]

Civic_zen/mylexicon, thanks for the info on the working of the electoral college. It still doesn't really answer my one basic question: how can today, in an age of mass communication, can one of the worlds greatest 'democracies' have an election where the loser of the popular vote wins?

It's really hard to explain and even harder to understand; especially if you don't
live in a federacy. Its too hard to explain without quoting stuff from the federalist papers (old American documents that talk about government).
Basically there were two types of founding fathers.....those who trusted the
average American to handle complex government issues and those who didn't.
The electoral college is a system that empowers the American people while
limiting their power at the same time, and it protects minority interest.

It does a lot of good and a lot of bad, that's why it is always under fire.
The electoral college has been claimed responsible for causing both the
Civil War and abolition of slavery. People in the south new that the little
states in the north could accomplish their agenda in the Senate and they
could win the Presidency which pissed of southerners and sparked revolt.
And at the same time, Northerners were anti-slavery and eventually their
minority elected president (Lincoln) would eventually abolish slavery......
so it's really hard to say whether or not it should exist.

[dohturdima]

Lovely how people confuse a republican concept (Electoral College) with a democratic institution (popular vote), and fail to see that the two can coexist. No reference to either party, BTW.

[delirious]

It amazes me how in a 4 year period a president could create so much destruction and yet people still back him up.

Don't be amazed. Hitler did the same thing with his "wars on terror" and talking as if he was God's chosen one.

Just feel sorry for the people who follow and support him.

[dohturdima]

Don't be amazed. Hitler did the same thing with his "wars on terror" and talking as if he was God's chosen one.

Just feel sorry for the people who follow and support him.

Oh, hi, Goebbels. :o Didn't know you came back from the dead to hold court. S'kay, we have a fertile ground with many already making ample use of your tactics here. As you well know, the playing field's the same: there are people who are able to discern and think for themselves, and then there are those who follow and support. Of course, you'd rather they support you and your cause (whatever it may be, matters little). So now is the time to start misinforming and rabble-rousing, and the results will surely be there, 'cause they'd like nothing more than you thinking it for them. And, once with you, they can flatten those who think. Sound familiar? Oh, thanks for posting in every thread. Like I said, glad you're back, Herr Goebbels.

[delirious]

Of course, you'd rather they support you and your cause (whatever it may be, matters little)

So I want people to follow "my cause" and yet I don't ever make clear what my cause is?

Oh, thanks for posting in every thread.

Thank you. It's good to be back and to catch up after the weekend.

[dohturdima]

Of course, you'd rather they support you and your cause (whatever it may be, matters little)

So I want people to follow "my cause" and yet I don't ever make clear what my cause is?

Heh, it's clear to me. But not really to those who are willing to accept your statements at a face value. That's exactly what Goebbels was counting on. Getting them angry and then they will follow you and will swallow whatever you feed them, doing many horrific things along the way because 1) they are angry and 2) you are willing to take the responsibility, be a fuhrer. All these years, heads were scratched as to why a civilized nation like Germany fell into this mass hysteria - when the answer lies in the previous sentence (all that had to be done was ask those who lived at the time - they confirmed it). Problem is, this ain't no postwar Germany. Many people think here. Then again, many don't. But I'm sure you've considered this. Welkomm!

[delirious]

Of course, you'd rather they support you and your cause (whatever it may be, matters little)

So I want people to follow "my cause" and yet I don't ever make clear what my cause is?

Heh, it's clear to me.

Oh brilliant, please explain to me what my cause is.

[dohturdima]

Of course, you'd rather they support you and your cause (whatever it may be, matters little)

So I want people to follow "my cause" and yet I don't ever make clear what my cause is?

Heh, it's clear to me.

Oh brilliant, please explain to me what my cause is.

See the "militants" thread. Nah, I'll save you the trouble,

Here it is: Bush BAAAD, Kerry's BEEETTER.

[delirious]

Of course, you'd rather they support you and your cause (whatever it may be, matters little)

So I want people to follow "my cause" and yet I don't ever make clear what my cause is?

Heh, it's clear to me.

Oh brilliant, please explain to me what my cause is.

See the "militants" thread. Nah, I'll save you the trouble,

Here it is: Bush BAAAD, Kerry's BEEETTER.

Nice try but how is "Bush BAAAD, Kerry's BEEETTER." a cause?

The only thing I really mentioned re: Bush in that thread is
"The world looks forward to a civilised US president.". I said nothing about Kerry being better. I'm non partisan.

So, again, explain to me what my cause is since "it's clear" to you.