The Devil

[Jenks]

Re: The Devil

Close but no banana?

[evangelion]

Re: The Devil

How do you know that Napoloen existed?

How do you know that Jesus existed...other than "The Bible tells me so." It goes both ways.

Has any shred of evidence been found that Jesus the man actually walked this Earth?? No

There are books about Paul Bunyon...did he exist?? There are books about Pecos Bill...did he exist?? But noooooo...because it's "THE BIBLE" and millions of people over thousands of years have said it's real...well then it must be, right?? I believe in the Bible about as much as I believe in any other tall tale.

and a man you have never met before who had the first thought about carbon dating is good enough for you?

And a man no one has ever seen before and no one can produce any physical evidence of and who talks to people thousands of years ago, but not today, and who walks on water and raises the dead and parts an entire ocean and makes the blind see and all that crap, is good enough for you?? At least I can see what science tells me.

The Bible could be entirely made up for all you know. Have you ever honestly concidered that the bible could be the most famous, most popular and most followed work of fiction ever?? Honestly, how do you know that the Bible is true, and that the events that it depicts really happened?? And don't answer with another question. Other than your faith and belief in what is in says, there is not one shred of evidence that the events or people in the Bible ever happened. Sorry, but blind faith in fairy tales is not enough for me to base my life on.

[toasty]

Re: The Devil

^^evangelion, I agree with the sentiment 100%. I would note, however, that as a purely historical figure, Jesus' presence on this planet is pretty well documented. I gather that he's referenced in a number of other texts, Roman, I think, that don't necessarily have any religious significance or have him doing anything miraculous. His divinity is of course a more debatable issue, but whether or not he was actually on this planet is not, as far as I'm aware.

[bart_smastard]

Re: The Devil

Just a thought, Is god like the greeks ?
They invented sanitation ,philosophy ,astronomy ( though egyptions may argue) , medicine ,democracy and pro competitive sport .
They thought they'd done their bit and put their feet up for 2,400 years .




God did it all at once then piss all for 13 billion years .


Mustn't be many jobs in the celestrial diety section of the paper for him to apply for . Just a thought

[Yao]

Re: The Devil

asdf.... that is exactly right. In context it all makes perfect sense.

Busted CDJ: here you are doing it yourself, extracting just that little piece of a bigger whole that will help you prove your point

As for the eveil men doing evil things and God not meddling with that: pretty lame excuse IMO. In fact, almost all excuses I've heard on every 'why' question about Christianity or God is countered with and equally nothing-saying answer so far. But what can you expect when taking a fantasy-book literally...Hardline Christians have has all the arguments we are throwing at you for centuries, and therefore are pretty well trained in dodging them with rhetorics. 'Guided by the spirit'...sure...or maybe it was a tumor causing delusions for all I care.

I'm getting a bit cynical here yes, almost unavoidable in discussions like there I'm afraid.

As for Jesus's presence: he has indeed walked the earth and his whereabouts and presence have been recorded my multiple written sources at the time. Looks like the Romans were good for something after all huh...introducing literacy and at least keeping scores of records.

Something else here: Jesus was a Palestinian. Then why the fuck is he always depicted as being a caucasian huh?

[toasty]

Re: The Devil

Something else here: Jesus was a Palestinian. Then why the fuck is he always depicted as being a caucasian huh?

I love this, because this always gets some folks whipped into a serious froth. The idea that Jesus wasn't lily-white or that he may have even been -- gasp -- black is too much for some to handle (not referring to anyone on here, mind you, just religious folks in general). I've always thought it was absurd, though, given where Jesus lived geographically, to think that he wasn't olive-skinned or darker. Was Jesus black? I've got no problem believing that, but I think dark-skinned is more likely. The idea that he was a garden-variety white guy, though, as he's often depicted, just strains credibility, IMO.

[BSully828]

Re: The Devil

Something else here: Jesus was a Palestinian. Then why the fuck is he always depicted as being a caucasian huh?

And why is God always depicted as an old guy with a long white beard draped in a while robe. Looks a lot like a certain thunder-throwing big man from Greek mythology, doesn't he?

[evangelion]

Re: The Devil

Something else here: Jesus was a Palestinian. Then why the fuck is he always depicted as being a caucasian huh?

Ever since I was a little kid I've wondered the same thing. I would always think "Wasn't Jesus from the Middle East??" And wonder why he had a light brown beard and hair.

[cowardly dj]

Re: The Devil

there are no descriptions of physical appearance of God of Jesus to extract an image. What you see in print is peoples rendition of Jesus and is not at all scripturally sound doctrine.

Blameed God for mans duties again.

[evangelion]

Re: The Devil

I'm not blaming anyone for anything. The Jesus I've alway seen hanging in churches and in books looks like the dude in the movie. Not like your average middle-easterner.

[Yao]

Re: The Devil

Yeah, I wasn't blaming God here either man, chill out. This distorted image of Jesus is totally man's doing.

You should've seen the faces of my African (and VERY religious) friends when I told them Jesus could never have been a white man. I asked them why they thought he was white, and they said because he always appears white in images and drawings. So I said: he lived in Palestine, where people are dark skinned. He can't have been white, logically thinking.

It confused the hell out of them, but maybe I helped them raise some questions that need to be asked, too...

[galo]

Re: The Devil

my friends from the middle east, Iowa to be exact and he's not black

[cowardly dj]

Re: The Devil

Busted CDJ: here you are doing it yourself, extracting just that little piece of a bigger whole that will help you prove your point

OK lets say you have read a book more than once. You are talking to someone about it who has only read part of it or may not have even read it.
Lets say one of them comes up to you and the book comes up in the conversation. They say something that you know from reading it that is not in context and flow of the book. Where are you going to go to show them what that paragraph means? Are you going to use the book as a means to define the context of the book you are talking about? If yes then are you taking that paragraph and using it to your needs just to prove a point? No! It means what it means.

Unless you have direct access to the author, all you have to describe the contents of a book is that book.

People who say that the Bible contridicts itself because they read verses like "judge not lest ye be judged" and in another verse they read "judge with righteous judgement"

Do not judge....judge...... what is the message here?

So if a person is told not to judge lest they be judged themselves and then are told to judge righteous judgement the it is obvious that it is 2 different types of judgement being talked about here.

I will explain this and won't charge you for my time

judge not lest ye be judged = that which you judge other people is the standard you will be judged by. The measure you use to judge others is the measure you will be judged by
Example: if you are walking through a store and see someone who is overweight and you make fun of them then you have no right to get upset when people say your teeth are yellow and crooked.

judge not lest ye be judged

[bart_smastard]

Re: The Devil

CDJ could you please list all offences for me in the bible where it is acceptable for the person to be stonned to death or killed in another such manner .. Just so i could judge all the contradictions on judging

[nick007]

Re: The Devil

Some serious dialogue use to happen in the old days hey! I wonder what has happened to change that! And I saw some names that i havnt seen for ages giving excellent arguments.

My five cents - There is a trinity, God the Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit and there are angels and demons and a Devil.

I have seen the manifestation of the Holy Spirit and i have seen people under the power of demonic activity.

i may not be living to my full potential as a christian but I still believe.