Johnny Boy does it again.....

[delirious]

Re: Johnny Boy does it again.....

So I'm laying on my bed, just kinda listening to the news. And all of a sudden I hear Johnny Boy's unmistakable voice taking shots at Bush (as usual). He's going on and on about this and that when the last thing he says...and I quote (kinda, I was half asleep) "a president who won't even give our soldiers the things they need, like body armor!!!"

WHAT!!!!!

If I'm not mistaken isn't this the man who voted against funding for the war, voted to cancel the M1 Abrams, and has basically tried everything in his power to reduce the military in any way possible????

I said flip, flop
A flip, flip, flop and ya don't stop

And judging from the poll in the other forum most of you want this guy to RUN OUR COUNTRY AND MOST OF THE FREE WORLD!!!!!!

Hilarious!!!!!!!!!!!!

What's hilarious is that you seem to have to mislead people in order to get your view across. Kerry voted for funding the war, but on the provision that the funding came from reducing the tax cuts to the wealthy. There you go. He wasn't against funding, but merely against funding the war from money that the US would have to borrow from other countries.

Bush put US soldiers into war without the proper equipment. If you were in the army, wouldn't you expect your Commander in Chief to ensure you have essential equipment, such as body armour? Or do you think your family should have to save up for it?

[evangelion]

Re: Johnny Boy does it again.....

What's hilarious is that you seem to have to mislead people in order to get your view across. Kerry voted for funding the war, but on the provision that the funding came from reducing the tax cuts to the wealthy. There you go. He wasn't against funding, but merely against funding the war from money that the US would have to borrow from other countries.

Bush put US soldiers into war without the proper equipment. If you were in the army, wouldn't you expect your Commander in Chief to ensure you have essential equipment, such as body armour? Or do you think your family should have to save up for it?

Oh God....you again. I knew there was something I didn't miss while I was locked out for 2 weeks.

Listen here dipshit...before you start accusing me of ANYTHING take a few things into concideration. My original statement was that Kerry accused Bush of not giving our troops the proper equipment. When he has voted against ever new weapon system and voted against the funding for the war. Period. I don't give half a shit the reason that he voted against it. Money from other countries or what the hell ever. He put that in front of trying to save our soldiers lives. Then he's going to come out and accuse Bush of not giving them what they needed? Right.

Your family and body armour statement makes no sense, so I'm not even going to touch it.

By the way...do you work????

[toasty]

Re: Johnny Boy does it again.....

...the "Golly, the Bush/Cheney ads said it, so it must be true" phenomenon.

I'm not even talking about ads. I'm talking about quotes...straight from the mouth of the person in question. In this case...John Kerry.

Dude.

You quoted something that Kerry said, I agree. You then followed that up with a series of sound bites that sound like they came right out of the Bush/Kerry propaganda machine. It is the latter to which my criticism is directed. I am not doubting your ability to accurately transcribe Kerry's words (at least I wasn't -- after this exchange, I'm begining to have concerns). What I challenge is your ability to step out from behind the shield of easy-to-recite one liners and have a legitimate discussion about the issues at hand. Up to this point, it has been largely fluff.

If you have actual evidence that, "this the man who voted against funding for the war, voted to cancel the M1 Abrams, and has basically tried everything in his power to reduce the military in any way possible," that does not rely upon pointing to the failure to vote for pork-laden bills, I'd love to hear it. In fact, that is specifically what I'm requesting.

After tonight's speech, though, you are going to have a hard time convincing me that Kerry (not Clinton, not Carter, or any other Democrat before him) intends to scale back the military. What are your thoughts on that?

[evangelion]

Re: Johnny Boy does it again.....

Dude.

You quoted something that Kerry said, I agree. You then followed that up with a series of sound bites that sound like they came right out of the Bush/Kerry propaganda machine. It is the latter to which my criticism is directed. I am not doubting your ability to accurately transcribe Kerry's words (at least I wasn't -- after this exchange, I'm begining to have concerns). What I challenge is your ability to step out from behind the shield of easy-to-recite one liners and have a legitimate discussion about the issues at hand. Up to this point, it has been largely fluff.

If you have actual evidence that, "this the man who voted against funding for the war, voted to cancel the M1 Abrams, and has basically tried everything in his power to reduce the military in any way possible," that does not rely upon pointing to the failure to vote for pork-laden bills, I'd love to hear it. In fact, that is specifically what I'm requesting.

After tonight's speech, though, you are going to have a hard time convincing me that Kerry (not Clinton, not Carter, or any other Democrat before him) intends to scale back the military. What are your thoughts on that?

Wow...this shit's got you all riled up. Bangin' your head and shit. Chill buddy...this isn't for money or anything.

Here ya go. https://www.boycottliberalism.com/bi...erry-votes.htm

Here's another.

https://www.congressmerge.com/onlinedb/cgi-bin/membervotes.cgi?&lang=&member=MAJR&site=congressmerge&address=&city=&state=&zipcode=&plusfour=&fullvotes=1]

Not so much on military, but notices how many "Not Votings" there are. What did Micheal Moore say about Bush..."Maybe he wished he had showed up to work more often."

[Civic_Zen]

Re:: Johnny Boy does it again.....

I say we give both Bush and Kerry the finger, and elect someone who is actually qualified to represent our country to the rest of the world. Someone whose management skills aren't limited to propaganda, slander, and ambiguous rhetoric...but that would disqualify 99.9% of the politicians in the world.

You know that I agree with you, but this will never happen. This is a two party system, so like I asked in the other thread, where do you stand? I know that you vote, will this election be an exception? Or will you vote for Nader?

[toasty]

Re:: Johnny Boy does it again.....

Dude.

You quoted something that Kerry said, I agree. You then followed that up with a series of sound bites that sound like they came right out of the Bush/Kerry propaganda machine. It is the latter to which my criticism is directed. I am not doubting your ability to accurately transcribe Kerry's words (at least I wasn't -- after this exchange, I'm begining to have concerns). What I challenge is your ability to step out from behind the shield of easy-to-recite one liners and have a legitimate discussion about the issues at hand. Up to this point, it has been largely fluff.

If you have actual evidence that, "this the man who voted against funding for the war, voted to cancel the M1 Abrams, and has basically tried everything in his power to reduce the military in any way possible," that does not rely upon pointing to the failure to vote for pork-laden bills, I'd love to hear it. In fact, that is specifically what I'm requesting.

After tonight's speech, though, you are going to have a hard time convincing me that Kerry (not Clinton, not Carter, or any other Democrat before him) intends to scale back the military. What are your thoughts on that?

Wow...this shit's got you all riled up. Bangin' your head and shit. Chill buddy...this isn't for money or anything.

Here ya go. https://www.boycottliberalism.com/bi...erry-votes.htm

Here's another.

https://www.congressmerge.com/onlinedb/cgi-bin/membervotes.cgi?&lang=&member=MAJR&site=congressmerge&address=&city=&state=&zipcode=&plusfour=&fullvotes=1]

Not so much on military, but notices how many "Not Votings" there are. What did Micheal Moore say about Bush..."Maybe he wished he had showed up to work more often."

Let me see if I've got this straight -- I ask you for something that supports your position that doesn't rely solely upon Kerry's failure to vote for pork-laden bills -- in essence, something other than a partisan sound bite -- and you direct me to a web site called www.boycottliberalism.com. Wouldn't expect any spin there, eh?

And is there any spin? Well, let's see. Although the article suggests that Kerry has voted again and again and again against military measures, the thirteen instances actually only represent 3 votes, 11 of the citations refer to the same bill, and all of three votes are from 14 years ago. Further, the way the matter is presented, there is no way to tell what else is included in these bills that someone might find objectionable. Bills are more complex than simply looking at one component in a vacuum. Both sides do use this technique to try to define their opponents, however -- my point throughout this thread is that we ought to take the time to educate ourselves on what was actually going on rather than relying upon your party to spoon feed it to you.

My advice? Spend some time listening to and reading the opposition's spin. I'm obviously voting for Kerry, but I make it a point to watch Fox News, and listen to the O'Reily Factor, and yes, even Rush Limbaugh, on a regular basis, because I think it keeps me honest and aids in making intelligent decisions at the polls. Most of the time I disagree, but a little skepticism in the idea that your party necessarily knows the best for you is healthy.

As for Kerry's failure to show up for votes, I have two comments:

1. All candidates do more campaigning than substantive work. Keep your eyes on W's schedule over the next few months, and see if his productivity doesn't drop as well.
2. It is rare that a bill would be voted on today when everyone involved did not already have a good idea of how people are going to vote, and whether the measure will pass. There is not a lot of sense in returning to vote for a measure when the result is predetermined. For example, neither Kerry nor Edwards returned to DC to vote against the Gay Marriage amendment, but it was because they were advised that the measure was already going to be easily defeated, not because they were ambivalent to it. I assure you that if there are votes where Kerry and Edwards votes will matter in the upcoming months, they will be there for them.

[evangelion]

Re:: Johnny Boy does it again.....

Round and round we go. Listen dude, I'm sure I could have Kerry himself call you and tell you he's a flip-flopper you would tell him he was spouting spin doctored sound bites. So this really is going nowhere. You got your views, I've got mine. You are obvoiusly well versered in the issues at hand. That's great, I hope it does well for you. But going back and forth, on and on about who's better, who's best is not why I come here.

I do have a couple final thoughts though.

Wouldn't expect any spin there, eh?

Name one place there isn't. Your liberal radio. Doubt it.

Although the article suggests that Kerry has voted again and again and again against military measures, the thirteen instances actually only represent 3 votes, 11 of the citations refer to the same bill...

Either way he still voted against them...all military related.

...and all of three votes are from 14 years ago.

Funny...I coulda sworn we were talking about what he had done in the past.

My advice?

Believe me man, I don't want and/or need you advice, so save it.

Keep your eyes on W's schedule over the next few months, and see if his productivity doesn't drop as well.

We're not talking about the next few months, are we? This entire thread has been about Kerry's past (there's that word again) and track record. Of course Bush's productivity is going to drop the months before a presidential election. Kerry on the other hand has been playing hooky for many months before now. What...was deciding these bills (and doing his job) not as important to Kerry as locking up votes? Seems like it.

[Jenks]

Re:: Johnny Boy does it again.....

My advice?

Believe me man, I don't want and/or need you advice, so save it.

bit like the pot calling the kettle black isn't it Evangelion?

you offer your opinion, advice, whatever....but then in return you don't respect the opposite opinion of others? m'kay. :?

i'm a republican. so i'm sort of on your side.

but you're being a fucktard cockmonkey here.

save what?

this forum is here to express opinion, you have yours, and others have theirs.

save it? please....save coupons for 39 cent bread, everything else is fair game.

i can't stand when people take debate personal.

[evangelion]

Re:: Johnny Boy does it again.....

My advice?

Believe me man, I don't want and/or need you advice, so save it.

bit like the pot calling the kettle black isn't it Evangelion?

you offer your opinion, advice, whatever....but then in return you don't respect the opposite opinion of others? m'kay. :?

i'm a republican. so i'm sort of on your side.

but you're being a fucktard cockmonkey here.

save what?

this forum is here to express opinion, you have yours, and others have theirs.

save it? please....save coupons for 39 cent bread, everything else is fair game.

i can't stand when people take debate personal.

There is nothing but respect. Here's an example.

You got your views, I've got mine. You are obvoiusly well versered in the issues at hand. That's great, I hope it does well for you.

I just see no end to this discussion. Forgive me for cutting it short. And yeah...I don't need any advice. I can develop my own opinions and views just fine. Is this the only line of the post you read. The rest of it seemed pretty valid. One line out of one post and all of a sudden I'm some disrespectful hardhead who shoots down others opinions without a second thought. Damn, tough crowd. If that is what you call "not respecting others opinions" then we have 2 different views of the world. Debating an issue is one thing, offering someone advice on how they should form what they think is another. I'm a big boy...I can figure it out on my own.

And believe me...all of this is nowhere near "taking it personal." Sorry, that's how I express things. If it rubs you the wrong way....don't read it.

Fucktard cockmonkey???? Didn't know I was worth such praise.

[delirious]

Re: Johnny Boy does it again.....

What's hilarious is that you seem to have to mislead people in order to get your view across. Kerry voted for funding the war, but on the provision that the funding came from reducing the tax cuts to the wealthy. There you go. He wasn't against funding, but merely against funding the war from money that the US would have to borrow from other countries.

Bush put US soldiers into war without the proper equipment. If you were in the army, wouldn't you expect your Commander in Chief to ensure you have essential equipment, such as body armour? Or do you think your family should have to save up for it?

Oh God....you again. I knew there was something I didn't miss while I was locked out for 2 weeks.

Listen here dipshit...before you start accusing me of ANYTHING take a few things into concideration. My original statement was that Kerry accused Bush of not giving our troops the proper equipment. When he has voted against ever new weapon system and voted against the funding for the war. Period.I don't give half a shit the reason that he voted against it. Money from other countries or what the hell ever.

Let me get this right... if the bill legalised gay marriage or something you're against, you'd vote for it regardless?

He put that in front of trying to save our soldiers lives. Then he's going to come out and accuse Bush of not giving them what they needed? Right.

He knew the bill was going to be passed anyway so his vote was a statement that he thought the bill could've been better.

Your family and body armour statement makes no sense, so I'm not even going to touch it.

Because there isn?t enough body armor for all soldiers fighting the war on terrorism, some families are buying the expensive armor at their own expense. Rep. John Larson, D-Conn., introduced legislation, H.R. 3615, to reimburse Armed Forces members and their families for that cost.

At a recent town hall meeting, Larson heard the story of a mother who used her own money to buy a Kevlar vest for her son. Pene Palifka of East Hartford, Conn., bought a vest for her son, Bill, of the 248th Engineer Company, which is currently serving in Iraq.

Congress appropriated funding for ceramic Interceptor body armor in April but as of late October, an estimated 44,000 troops still did not have it.

The Department of Defense has indicated that all troops will have the new body armor by the end of December.

Last month Rep. Ted Strickland, D-Ohio, called for congressional hearings into why the military went to war when there was a shortage of body armor.

Interceptor body armor has been credited with saving at least 29 lives in the war in Afghanistan. It consists of a Kevlar vest with removable ceramic inserts that can stop rounds from an AK-47 assault rifle. Strickland said in November that 40 percent of soldiers in Iraq still lacked this protection.

?This administration owes the American people?especially the families of soldiers?an explanation as to why it failed to properly equip our troops,? he said.

In a letter to House Armed Services Committee Chairman Duncan Hunter, R-Calif., Strickland and 102 other House members said mothers and fathers of men and women in the service are purchasing ceramic plates for these Interceptor vests and sending them to their sons and daughters in Iraq.

Soldiers who have neither the jackets nor the inserts?but rather Vietnam-era flak jackets?are having ceramic inserts sent to them and they are using duct tape to attach them to the backs of their flak jackets, the letter said.

http://www.fendonline.com/families/2003/FF121803.htm

By the way...do you work????

I've answered that before. Yes, I do.... from Monday to Friday in a hectic and very technically challenging industry.

[Jenks]

Re:: Johnny Boy does it again.....

[Fucktard cockmonkey???? Didn't know I was worth such praise.

yeah, i honestly don't even know what it means.

[delirious]

Re:: Johnny Boy does it again.....

[Fucktard cockmonkey???? Didn't know I was worth such praise.

yeah, i honestly don't even know what it means.

What it means is that the poster has run out of ideas and therefore has to call people names to avoid a meaningful, productive and intelligent debate.

[Jenks]

or it could just mean, fucktard cockmonkey.

[Jenks]

Re:: Johnny Boy does it again.....

ok, slightly back on topic here...

What is going to piss me right of Loyd, is if Kerry wins this election, (which it's looking more in his favor as the weeks go by,) a few years down the road when the middle east is further down the road to reform, when terrorism is further down the road to defeat, Kerry is going to take credit for all of it, when in reality, it is the hard stance the Bush administration has taken with terrorism and the middle east right now that will lead to progress in the future. But in typical democrat fashion, they'll take credit for all of it, like they invented the internet and their policy created the economic boom of the Clinton years.

all hypothetical, of course...but that's how the dems operate.

Part of me says, "I don't give a fuck who gets credit for any of it, as long as the world is a better place." The other part of me says, "Great, 4 years of big-upping the democratic party and the hollywood elite with their self importance."

[evangelion]

Re: Johnny Boy does it again.....

Let me get this right... if the bill legalised gay marriage or something you're against, you'd vote for it regardless?

I fail to see the correlation between gay marriage and trying to prevent a troop from getting a bullet through his heart. So your saying Kerry is against preventing that.

Fucktard cockmonkey???? Didn't know I was worth such praise.

yeah, i honestly don't even know what it means.

What it means is that the poster has run out of ideas and therefore has to call people names to avoid a meaningful, productive and intelligent debate.

Ya know what...if you took the time to read the posts, instead of seeing who it is doing the talking and typing something that makes that person look bad just as fast as your little fingers can type, you would have noticed that we weren't debating anything. He was responding to a comment I made...that's it. You try to act so self-righteous and mature it ends up being comical.

By the way...do you work????

I've answered that before. Yes, I do.... from Monday to Friday in a hectic and very technically challenging industry.

Damn...when are you gonna learn. I could ask you that question twice a month from now until the end of time and you would responded to it everytime.