Christian Theologian says WTC towers were demolished, cites evidence

[runningman]

Re: Christian Theologian says WTC towers were demolished, cites evidence

no other building was lit on fire with a full load of rocket fuel either.

[delirious]

Re: Christian Theologian says WTC towers were demolished, cites evidence

No other steel building in history has collapsed due to fire except on 9/11. That's how strong steel is.

Experts said no building like it [WTC7], a modern, steel-reinforced high-rise, had ever collapsed because of an uncontrolled fire. (Glanz, 2001; emphasis added.)

no other building was lit on fire with a full load of rocket fuel either.

WTC7 wasn't hit by a plane, unless I'm very mistaken.

How can this be? How can a steel-reinforced building that never got hit by a plane, collapse completely to the ground from fire?

[srbbnd]

Re: Christian Theologian says WTC towers were demolished, cites evidence

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5137581991288263801&q=loose+change

this video spark my interests in it. I found it interesting. if you have seen it already sorry.

[runningman]

Re: Christian Theologian says WTC towers were demolished, cites evidence

WTC7 wasn't hit by a plane, unless I'm very mistaken.

How can this be? How can a steel-reinforced building that never got hit by a plane, collapse completely to the ground from fire?

I'm not sure if you realize this but 2 of the worlds biggest buildings fell in downtown NYC.. it would have been a war zone when thy fell with flying crap everywhere..I have to stop with this argument because I feel like i'm explaining this to an 8 year old..

[thesightless]

Re: Christian Theologian says WTC towers were demolished, cites evidence

give it a rest. please. just give it a rest.

[thesightless]

Re: Christian Theologian says WTC towers were demolished, cites evidence

he might be worser than eye-p who claimed cheney was responsible fo rthe attacks so we could chain afghan and iraq to get the oil.

[delirious]

Re: Christian Theologian says WTC towers were demolished, cites evidence

Damn... thought this would be the place to get a solid refutation. You guys are dissappointing!

[Yao]

Re: Christian Theologian says WTC towers were demolished, cites evidence

Let your personal involvement not keep other people from discussing what they think might be important Sightless: you may not agree, but IMO it's not a reason to mute any questioning of the events that occurred that day.

Respect,

Yao

[Jenks]

Re: Christian Theologian says WTC towers were demolished, cites evidence

but IMO it's not a reason to mute any questioning of the events that occurred that day.

i dunno, i'd say someone asking the same question over and over and just not grasping a concept is a pretty decent reason to mute.

[runningman]

Re: Christian Theologian says WTC towers were demolished, cites evidence

delirious probably thinks that we went into Afghanistan for there opium so the secret society could make money. And we went into Iraq for their oil. In order for all this to happen we just had to fly a couple planes into our buildings and kill everybody inside.. So who did it the Illuminati or the US Government?? OOOOOHHH SCARRYYY..

[thesightless]

Re: Christian Theologian says WTC towers were demolished, cites evidence

im trying to figure out my copier's scanner so i can give some trustworthy info on this.

[davetlv]

Re: Christian Theologian says WTC towers were demolished, cites evidence

So who did it the Illuminati or the US Government?? OOOOOHHH SCARRYYY..

Like all good conspiracy theories it all comes down to the Jews - we did it. We control the Illuminati, we control th US Government. War in Iraq was for us. We are responsible for 9/11.

[Jenks]

Re: Christian Theologian says WTC towers were demolished, cites evidence

Whoever did it, the Mossad has already tracked them down and cut them to pieces.

[neoee]

Re: Christian Theologian says WTC towers were demolished, cites evidence

delirious, though I'm more on the side of the consipracy theory I'll play devils advocate and point out some things which were pointed out to me in a discussion with a friend who is on the other side of the fence. I, like you, believe there are too many "coincidences" and every time you question things you only get replys saying put it to rest but nothing to refute it.

So in regards to building 7 there was apparently some 1000+ gallons of diesel fuel in tanks which were hit by debris. The fuel then weakened a bolt(?) on the main truss of the building which caused the collapse.

Now that what my friend found online. Now my question to this goes as follows:
The documentary aired on Discovery, where the designer of the the towers was used to explain the falls, tells us that had the protective coating on the beams in the towers been left intact, the would have never fell. The coatings were "blasted off" when the planes hit the building thus allowing for the metal to be affected by the fires. Now assuming this is a valid explaination, carry this over to building 7, where you have a fuel with lower energy density (diesel vs. jet fuel) and the protective coating is (assuming it was there in the first place) intact how could this explaination be valid?

But the other point that my friend made was if it was an inside job than someone would have spoken up, its just to big a job to keep under wraps.

My only argument to this was because of how horrendious(sp?) this act was the public would live in denial and it would be a much bigger feat to prove, that being the case.

[thesightless]

Re: Christian Theologian says WTC towers were demolished, cites evidence

ok its isnt working and im no techie.

ill cut it down to the major points. cuz im not typing all of this shit- it can be found in ""report from ground zero"" by dennis smith- pages 183
onward.

these come from a) dennis smith, a former NYFD captain b) minori yamasaki's journals and words (he was the architect) c) engineer rom hamburger who was an inspector who had urged the PA to re-do the fireproofing on the buildings. d)leslie robertson- and engineer who worked onthe buildings during intial construction and the repairs after the 93 bombing. and finally e) Henry Guthard, one of yamasaki's partners who worked on the buildings.


----first thing, each floor was once sqare acre plus 12 feet.

---steel used in the construction was designed to hold up pretty well. but not enough. at 1200 degrees it stretches 9.5 inches per 100 feet. the fires at the top were estimated 2200 degrees from the temperature that the jet fuel generates in a confined, non pressurized space. the steel used was processed from 1962-1968

-----the design of the building itself was a fatal flaw-- yamasaki has used a ""bamboo style"" support design whereas a central pylon of steel and concrete columns were bundled up and the floors laid around them. then the outer wall provided lateral support. this put all the weight on the extreme middle(60%) and outer edge.(40%)

-----when ron hamburger inspected the building, he has been quoted as saying ""if you knock it, that spray on protection will fall off"" when you hit this fireproofing (which btw was installed in 60's and early 70's) it simply falls off the wall. fly a jetliner into something you can knock off with your hand and it wont hold.

----- each floor was held by trusses, literally hanging on the support beams, not directly tied to them. this also lead to voids within the structure. these voids funneled the heat and fire upwards and downwards, onto the main support beams in the center upon impact. this report is backed by numnerous 911 calls where people said explosions burst through the walls up to 15 floors beneth the impact zones.

--- also contributing to the spreading of the heat at a drastic rate were the factors that each building had 97 passanger elevators, and shafts for them. as well as the worlds largest HVAC system, with 60000 tons of cooling capacity. lot of venting room.

----- tied back to mr hamburger, the company who created the steel had allowed it to sit outside, and rust. and furthermore, mr hamburger claims that the fire proofing company sprayed the fireproofing over the rust. this is comlicated by the fact that the buildings may have very well deteriorated over the last 40 years, and more fireproofing probably fell off and lay exposed, furthering the rusting of the beams. and back to the temperature, the beams were instantly exposed to conditions a thousand degrees above where they begin stretching if they were heated via a flame.

----- the planes crashed directly through the buildings (cant refute that we all saw it) and severly damaged the center cores. the planes, according to the FAA and US airforce were travelling just above 500 miles per hour, 200 miles per hour faster than the design considerations of a 707 plane. also a lot heavier (767's were what hit). the planes crashed into the buildings with a load of 25 million pounds.

----leslie robertson an engineer on the building confessed that the original designs did not factor in a fully loaded plane's fuel load, a fuel load that has increased octane drastically since 1962 (original study date for the designs).

--- """tragically, neither the architects nor the engineers at the time could have anticipated an airplane as advanced as the 767, which carried 10,000 gallons of fuel in wings that spanned 156 feet from wingtip to wingtip. nor did they anticipate that planes could crash with a force of about 25 million pounds. also it seems that no one could have anticipated the consequences of the extraordinary fire load of ten thousand gallons of jet fuel and the consequence of a fire that burned at about 2200 degrees uniformly, instantly, and comprehensively on one or more floors of the building""""

the planes radius of impact was about 15 floors.


---henry guthard(prodject manager of the site) quoted as saying """to hit the building, to disappear inside the building, to have peices come out the other side, it was amazing the building stood. to defend agaisnt 5 thousand gallons of ignited fuel at 1350 feet is not possible""

------yamasaki never considered a full collapse, but he did consider that if a plane had struck the building, the side that was impacted could partially collaspe within a few floors of the impact. this was only accounted for if the steel stretched at the alloted 9.5 inches per 100 feet at 1200 degrees.

furthering this point is a combination of all above points.upon \impact the voids, HVAC systems, elevators and stariwells literally funeled the heat and fuel throughout the building, creating a building wide stretch within minutes. a stretch well over the alloted amount for 1200 degrees on a small site.

----the trusses that held one square acre of 3 inch thick concrete are included in the steel. so were the bolts that held them on. this shifted the weight onto the center colums, which were damaged and holding 20 floors above them. but the 47 columns could not stand the weight. they buckled severly.

---- since the walls were no longer supporting, and the center columns heavily damaged, the floors collapsed, and here is where it gets scary. they didnt collapse partially, they collapsed wholly. one sqaure acre of concrete and steel fell directly upon its counterpart below. no floor was designed to withstand the dynamic uniform weght of a falling floor, and it too collapsed, beginning a tradgic chain reaction that only got incrementally stronger every 15 feet. then in the matter of seconds the falling debris was travelling at a speed of 120 miles an hour, bearing the brunt of 1,2,3,4,5,6,7, then 8 and 9 and so on floors with it. this took 12 seconds.

---lastly, 40000 tonnes of a building prodject that took 11 years to build, with 4,761,416 square feet of concrete, fell bearing a load of 2000 pounds per square foot, plus the dynamic load, onto floors designed to bear 100 pounds per square foot.

---- this all fell upon a base which was surrounded by silt, consisting of 70 foot walls of concrete aroudn its border and subway tunnels underneath. the base itself became so severly damged that half an hour later the north tower fell. with the two main towers falling, the debris flew for city blocks, and into tower 7 (aka the AMEX building) which was a lot smaller than either tower and lost approximetly 30% of its weight bearing capability from damage to both its above groud structure and below ground base. a few days later they had to demolish another building.