16 civilians and 20 soldiers..vs. 357 officially killed

[davetlv]

Re: 16 civilians and 20 soldiers..vs. 357 officially killed

Dave, the answer to that is quite simple: we don't know.

I find that element as well as the info on the blog you linked to quite interesting and I guess one day we'll know the true story.

I agree we don't know, and yet all the MSM are clearly convinced of what happened whilst ignoring the facts.

However, I don't think that this is the time to point fingers and start blaming. For me the main point is that on both sides of the line innocent people are suffering the consequences from the war.

Whilst that might be your position, one i agree with, thats not the position being pushed by others around here.

The US now supports the scenario of a cease fire, an international peace keeping force and the neutralisation of Hezbollah (in the South, but let's hope it will be a total neutralisation). That's a fair deal imo. Or isn't it?

That and the return of our two soldiers is what Israel has been calling for since this thing started.

Interview with Hassan Nasrallah

He talks about UN res 425 and so does a former US embassador.

http://www.informationclearinghouse....ticle14254.htm

Bwahahahahahahahahah information clearing house. Interesting choice of reading there dig. Don't give up your day job now will you.

Whilst i believe in the concept, as stated here time and time again, that we need to read as much as we can before we make up our own minds, we also need to ensure that what we're reading is credible. Next you'll be quoting from Counterpunch and James Bamford

[davetlv]

Re: 16 civilians and 20 soldiers..vs. 357 officially killed

, let me explain to you in simple terms we'll subtitute the word land for money. it might make more sense to you. Or maybe i should use the apples and oranges example?

Syria: This is Lebanon's money....
Israel: No its not, it's your money!!!!
Syria: For F*ck sake, this is lebanon's money!
Israel: No, its yours!
Syria: Well F*ck off then, i'm giving it to lebanon. don't tell me what to do with my money!

@davetlv

Your analogies are pointless. They really dont matter.

According to the UN the Sheba Farms belong to Syria and not Lebanon.

Deny the facts as much as you like but they are the facts Sono.

[sono]

Re: 16 civilians and 20 soldiers..vs. 357 officially killed

Your analogies are pointless. They really dont matter.

According to the UN the Sheba Farms belong to Syria and not Lebanon.

Deny the facts as much as you like but they are the facts Sono.

oh dear.

[sono]

Re: 16 civilians and 20 soldiers..vs. 357 officially killed

Whilst i believe in the concept, as stated here time and time again, that we need to read as much as we can before we make up our own minds, we also need to ensure that what we're reading is credible. Next you'll be quoting from Counterpunch and James Bamford

i wonder who you quoted this morning. Shall we scroll back a couple of pages to find your quote of the most random blogger who is an evil ultra right hypocrite who was trying to say that the massacre was exagerated. You really are desperate to back up your losing argument.

Seriously, if you're going to argue your case, do it properly because you're embarassing yourself out of desperation.

[davetlv]

Re: 16 civilians and 20 soldiers..vs. 357 officially killed

i wonder who you quoted this morning. Shall we scroll back a couple of pages to find your quote of the most random blogger who is an evil ultra right hypocrite who was trying to say that the massacre was exagerated. You really are desperate to back up your losing argument.

Seriously, if you're going to argue your case, do it properly because you're embarassing yourself out of desperation.

Quite the contary Sono, its you who is embarassing yourself.

You discount the truth because it does not fit into your anti-israel rants.

I share information here to counter your anti-israel approach, not because I have nothing better to do, because in this case you are clearly wrong.

My biggest weapon is truth whilst yours is lies and disinformation.

Your sole method of arguing the information I posted is to claim that it came from an evil right wing blogger, whilst actually ignoring the evidence produced.

So who is embarassing themselves?

[sono]

Re: 16 civilians and 20 soldiers..vs. 357 officially killed

My biggest weapon is truth whilst yours is lies and disinformation.

Ok oh righteous one. We'll have to take the word of you're buddy e-blogger. May he lead us to glory and rid the world of this evil that is Hizbollah.

You really have become desperate like your government.

First day of War: "We will wipe Hizbollah of the face of the earth"

3 weeks later....

Israel fails to take hold of the tiny border village of Maroun Al Ras having their ass kicked by hisbollah killing 13 of its commandos from its elite unit.

....and we all know what happens when Israel loses a war. Yes....it starts bombing civilians.

One of most richest dumbass armies in the world backed financially by the US and its allies and they can't beat a militia with world war 2 rockets.

need i go any further? I guess you and your beloved israel want to be humiliated even further....

I talk to you in couple of weeks to see if you 'wiped hizbollah of the face of the earth'.

Layla Tov

[Bululu]

Re: 16 civilians and 20 soldiers..vs. 357 officially killed

So give it back to Syria if it belongs to them , why do you keep occupying it ?????
another thing to mention the word you said dave about the tax I've neevr heard it before , in real arabic its called AL JYZIAH and it means you live on an Islamic territory and protected and considered as a muslim.
PS:i am really surprised and impressed by the Lebanesse solidarity against what is happening , the plan was to divide the Lebanesse like what is happening right now in Iraq (Sunaa against Shiaa), like Alexander the Great said (Divied, you rule) keep up the resistance .

[davetlv]

Re: 16 civilians and 20 soldiers..vs. 357 officially killed

So give it back to Syria if it belongs to them , why do you keep occupying it ?????
another thing to mention the word you said dave about the tax I've neevr heard it before , in real arabic its called AL JYZIAH and it means you live on an Islamic territory and protected and considered as a muslim.
PS:i am really surprised and impressed by the Lebanesse solidarity against what is happening , the plan was to divide the Lebanesse like what is happening right now in Iraq (Sunaa against Shiaa), like Alexander the Great said (Divied, you rule) keep up the resistance .

So you now acknowledged that Sheba farms belong to Syria.

Dhimmi
Arabic: dhimmi

Muslim juridical term for Christians and Jews, sometimes Zoroastrians, Mandeans or even Hindus, living in a society governed by Muslims rulers and law.

Dhimmis have limited autonomy, but full rights to practice their religion and are assured full protection by the rulers. Earlier there was a specific tax, jizya ( Koran 9,29), that Dhimmis had to pay to receive these benefits. Dhimmis who did not pay this tax, either had to convert to Islam or face the death penalty. This tax, higher than the tax Muslims had to pay, was on several occasions one of the most important sources of income for the rulers, and, therefore, they were often little inclined to encourage conversion to Islam, as this would represent a decrease in their income.

It was an early endeavour of the Sharia to add details to the regulations of the jizya. These involved that the Christians could keep all of their churches and convents, but were neither allowed to erect new structures nor restore ruined buildings. The Dhimmis had to give lodging to Muslims for up to 3 days and they had to show Muslims their respect. They could not perform religious rituals in public and no crosses could be used in Muslim quarters. They could not ride on horseback with saddles, nor could they carry weapons or sell alcoholic beverages to Muslims.

Non-Muslims were not allowed to build houses taller than their neighbours' houses. In public they had to carry visible tokens of the religion to which they belonged. If there was a case at the court, Muslim statements were considered of more value than the ones from non-Muslims. But there were no limitations to the professions in which non-Muslims could engage.

Later there were more regulations imposed, as in 853, when Caliph al-Mutawakkil forbade Dhimmis to ride on horses; they had to limit themselves to donkeys and mules. In 14th century Egypt, Jews had to wear a a yellow turban, Christians a blue one.

But in practice, there were fewer distinctions between the people of the different religions: people lived side by side. Non-Muslims could hold the highest positions in society and this during times when Jews in Europe had few or no social rights.

Another word for Dhimmis, is ahl al-kitab, "people of the book", but this is more a theological term, than a juridical one.

http://lexicorient.com/e.o/dhimmi.htm

[Bululu]

Re: 16 civilians and 20 soldiers..vs. 357 officially killed

Yes so its not Dhimmi as you said in the first post , but JIZYAH as I explained to you , I just understood that you thought AHL AL DHIMMA (which means people with faith) is the actual JYZIAHJ until I explained to you and you did your own research after that , dave go back to politics and forget about Islam , when you need a lesson I am here.
Vive la resistance

[davetlv]

Re: 16 civilians and 20 soldiers..vs. 357 officially killed

Dhimmis have limited autonomy, but full rights to practice their religion and are assured full protection by the rulers. Earlier there was a specific tax, jizya ( Koran 9,29), that Dhimmis had to pay to receive these benefits. Dhimmis who did not pay this tax, either had to convert to Islam or face the death penalty. This tax, higher than the tax Muslims had to pay, was on several occasions one of the most important sources of income for the rulers, and, therefore, they were often little inclined to encourage conversion to Islam, as this would represent a decrease in their income.

Some protection you talked about earlier. That jizya tax sounds absolutly great!

And BTW my research is done PRIOR to posting responses to you or anyone else.

[thesightless]

Re: 16 civilians and 20 soldiers..vs. 357 officially killed

sono, stop posting, you are ignoring facts. i needed to tell you that. im not getting into it anytime soon.

bululu, you are based in fact moreso, but you show heavy anti isreali bias, but all your arguements, can and would lead to a logical response of isreali action. you claim they take over farms violently, but it was the groups who came in during the invasions of the early part of the 7th and 8th centuries who violently kicked out the jews to begin with.

[thesightless]

Re: 16 civilians and 20 soldiers..vs. 357 officially killed

all it seems that you want, is a sudden ceasefire and pullout, which will only offer yet another year for the groups to re arm.

[KinKyJ]

Re: 16 civilians and 20 soldiers..vs. 357 officially killed

but it was the groups who came in during the invasions of the early part of the 7th and 8th centuries who violently kicked out the jews to begin with.

So in that perspective it would be ok if native americans started shelling the White House?

What happened in the 7/8th century doesn't have much relevance imo.

[dig72]

Re: 16 civilians and 20 soldiers..vs. 357 officially killed

Bwahahahahahahahahah information clearing house. Interesting choice of reading there dig. Don't give up your day job now will you.

Whilst i believe in the concept, as stated here time and time again, that we need to read as much as we can before we make up our own minds, we also need to ensure that what we're reading is credible. Next you'll be quoting from Counterpunch and James Bamford

Laugh all you want Dave it won't change a thing, Informationclearinghouse is a great source of information. Articles and videos are put up on this site from all media across the world. From Israel, Middle East, Asia , the US, Australia, oh yes and Iran aswell.

Bact to the earlier post, UN res 425 called for the immediate withdrawl of the israeli forces out of Lebanon back in 1978, not only did the israeli forces not leave Southern Lebanon but they went on there murderous ways and occupied Beirut. The resistance by groups such as Hezboallah were the only reason why the israeli forces left in 2000 other wise the'd most certainly still be there.

It is absolutely pathetic and almost laughable to now here the israelis cry fowl when Hezboallah won't head to UN res 1559.

I urge anyone on this site to visit information www.clearinghouse.com and source some heap of great information from all over the world about the past and current crisis in the Middle East and all around the globe.

There's a great piece by John Pilger called 'Palestine is still the issue'.

[thesightless]

Re: 16 civilians and 20 soldiers..vs. 357 officially killed

So in that perspective it would be ok if native americans started shelling the White House?

What happened in the 7/8th century doesn't have much relevance imo.

if we were to apply the reasoning that they are fighting for something that was taken, then yes. not my opinion, just pointing out flawed, one sided logic that ppl use to come to irrelevant conclusions. if you are going to do that, make sure you say its ur poinoin, NOT FACT (not aimed at u fucko, tell erzina i want my socks back)

ppl keep using the reasoning that hezz and hamas are fighting for something that was taken from them, that point is bunk, because they took it first. therefore, the jews are taking back what was taken from them.