Bush takes no personal responsibility for Iraq WMD errors

[delirious]

Re:: Bush takes no personal responsibility for Iraq WMD erro

No mistake here. Intel was as good as it gets.

The Pentagon is investigating whether Chalabi gave misleading intel from Iran to the
CIA, as "proof." How could that intel be "as good as it gets?"

It's obviously the WORST intel you can get... being from your enemy.

You get a maybe it's there or maybe not. You pick what you think it is and move on it. We don't have the luxury of waiting for Saddam or any terrorist supporting bastard or rogue jerk-off to build up their weapons with illegal trade and hope he doesn't do something stupid and that the whole f'n mess goes away. You either strike with what you know or let it grow and hope it doesn't tear your ass off later.

So, while Iraq maybe/maybe not has a few WMDs, you let a nuclear threat by North
Korea "build and build?"

North Korea has nukes which can hit the USA, according to Congressional reports
(link available, if needed). Why hit Iraq, where the intelligence was sketchy, and not
North Korea, a CURRENT threat.

Those days of letting this crap build and build is over.

No, it's not. The North Korean threat is building and building.

We should redraw the map in that region with democracies, Iraq is as good a start for that as we could hope for. Let those terrorist bastards flood that place with assholes, let them meet their maker on that battlefield rather than here. We are at war and it will get a whole hell of a lot worse before we can make it better.

Hmmm... it might, but this is definately NOT the way Bush had planned the war. They
thought the troops would be out of the country by now. They thought they would be
"greeted as liberators." And if Bush knew it was going to be such a prolonged mess,
why didn't he tell the American people before the war started?

1993 was the first major terrorist bombing in the US, then 911 on 2001, thats 8 years for a spectacular strike, we will be do for another before 2007, Im sure it will come sooner than that. Just think of it this way, since nothing really has change significantly in this country in the way of security, and I'm talking about tracking people, especially people of a particular race - we will be doomed to another strike. Get off your asses out there and take personal responsibility for being a dumbass if you think this shit about taking responsibility for an error? really makes sense (the whole world stated he had WMDs long before we were there). Please enough with the leg-humping love feast about WMDs, put the goal of the war into perspective, to eliminate terrorism and their supporters.

Maybe if the US wasn't in other countries, killing locals, a lot less people would want
to commit terrorist attacks against the US. Maybe they'd even THANK the US for
being so generous. An overwhelming proportion of people worldwide were against this
war from the very beginning. Considering the mess it's been, what do those
people NOW think of the US?

Ahhh.. I feel better. (US Citizens) Vote for whoever you want, just don't be surprised if you vote for a guy who doesn't have the ballz of making a decision and staying the course.

Do you have "balls" when you make a mistake, based on bad information, and then
carry on making that same mistake over and over again? Don't you have more balls
to admit the mistake and then take steps to rectify the problem?

Vote for Bush if you want to "stay the course"

There has been poor operational planning and execution on the ground. And to
think that we are going to ?stay the course,? the course is headed over Niagara Falls. I
think it's time to change course a little bit, or at least hold somebody responsible for
putting you on this course. Because it's been a failure

Ret. Gen. Anthony Zinni

[toasty]

Re:: Bush takes no personal responsibility for Iraq WMD erro

No mistake here. Intel was as good as it gets. You get a maybe it's there or maybe not.

Where are you getting this? If there is one thing that has come from the investigation into our Iraq and 9/11 intel, it is that the US intelligence agencies are in serious need of being revamped and that the intel we acted on in Iraq was dead wrong (and that neither Clinton nor Bush acted on intel that was right). I'd say our intelligence was shit.

Also, I understand that the primary difference between the draft versions of the pre-war intel reports on Iraq and the final versions is that the final versions dispense with any qualifying language like "we believe," "we have found some evidence that," "some sources have indicated that," etc. and, importantly, completely delete contrary evidence regarding WMDs. This makes a huge difference, as it turns heavily qualified statements into statements of fact -- the final report did not say "maybe its there and maybe its not," as you suggest -- it said "WMDs are there."

Whether the intel was deliberately skewed is a debateable point, but the fact of the matter is that it was not even close to objective.

[digitalghostx]

Re:: Bush takes no personal responsibility for Iraq WMD erro

The Pentagon is investigating whether Chalabi gave misleading intel from Iran to the CIA, as "proof." How could that intel be "as good as it gets? It's obviously the WORST intel you can get... being from your enemy."

Chalabi wasn't the only intel they used, get real. Russia, UN, Britian, Israel all said the same thing. We had all the indications, even from the past 20 years of history that Saddam was willing and able to use WMDs, the problem was how long would it take for him to pass them to Terrorist.

So, while Iraq maybe/maybe not has a few WMDs, you let a nuclear threat by North Korea "build and build?"

North Korea has nukes which can hit the USA, according to Congressional reports ( link available, if needed). Why hit Iraq, where the intelligence was sketchy, and not North Korea, a CURRENT threat.

Simple, one big reason CHINA.

No, it's not. The North Korean threat is building and building.

I agree. That bastard Kim Jong Ill is in the cross hairs.

Hmmm... it might, but this is definately NOT the way Bush had planned the war. They thought the troops would be out of the country by now. They thought they would be "greeted as liberators." And if Bush knew it was going to be such a prolonged mess, why didn't he tell the American people before the war started?

Yes, he did say the war on terror (which includes Iraq) would be long and difficult.

Maybe if the US wasn't in other countries, killing locals, a lot less people would want to commit terrorist attacks against the US. Maybe they'd even THANK the US for being so generous. An overwhelming proportion of people worldwide were against this war from the very beginning. Considering the mess it's been, what do those people NOW think of the US?

Seriously, these people don't need us to help inspire them to come kill us, they have their own schools and leaders ready to do it for them. An overwhelming proportion of people were for peace when Hilter set out to invade Poland too, that doesn't mean it's right.

Do you have "balls" when you make a mistake, based on bad information, and then carry on making that same mistake over and over again? Don't you have more ballsto admit the mistake and then take steps to rectify the problem?

The only mistake was that we didn't take care of this fugger in '91. It's about time this bastard Saddam was kicked out of Iraq for good. Believe me, I know, those people are greatful for this freedom. That's not a mistake that's a gift that not only you and I should enjoy. WMDs weren't found but that's great Im glad they werent (I hope they didn't get to syria), but that wasn't the only reason to get the job done, we needed to wipe Saddam out before this problem got to the level of us throwing nukes, or bio-chems at each other, that's the whole point. We don't need that crap floating around into the US, Israel, Kuwait, or any other country. It's really not that far fetch to see a day when WMDs show up in terrorists hands and the next thing you know there is a mushroom cloud in a major city. It's only a matter of time, but Saddam will be one less asswhole capable of actually succeeding at this.

Vote for Bush if you want to "stay the course" There has been poor operational planning and execution on the ground. And to think that we are going to ?stay the course,? the course is headed over Niagara Falls. I think it's time to change course a little bit, or at least hold somebody responsible for putting you on this course. Because it's been a failure - Ret. Gen. Anthony Zinni

Don't leave out the fact that the strategic decision to go into Iraq is still valid. I agree, more needs to be done to shape up the reconstruction effort and prepare Iraq for elections and a more stable condition. Gen. Zinni has it right, there needed to be more planning on the aftermath of the war, clean-up was botched. They should have declared martial law immediately in places like falluja and parts of Bahgdad to name a few. Again, this all belies the fact that we were there to get Saddam and to prevent WMDs from being used by terrorists, that will never happen now. Next goal, get Iraq up on it's feet and let these people become a beacon of hope in the region. As Bush says the terrorists will share in a huge defeat once the situation can be become more stable and the elections and a free Iraq are allowed to grow.

[Morgan]

Re: Bush takes no personal responsibility for Iraq WMD error

Blair should go. He knew he was spinning his stories with only a shred of fact, the rest was written around a few dodgy sources which weren?t checked properly. He lied to us the British people and made us fight his war so he could cosy up to Bush.

As for needing to invade Iraq, there have been no WMDs in iraq for the last 10 years, i?m surpised that Saddam could have built a house, let alone a fcuking nuke. From the sources that i have seem it seems saddam was playing a dangerous game of bluff, to try and keep his neighbours and the UN scared so they didn?t realise what a shambles the Army and generally the country had become.

The colation went into iraq for political reasons not to save the fcking world from a nuclear holcust.

[digitalghostx]

Re: Bush takes no personal responsibility for Iraq WMD error

Blair should go. He knew he was spinning his stories with only a shred of fact, the rest was written around a few dodgy sources which weren?t checked properly. He lied to us the British people and made us fight his war so he could cosy up to Bush.

As for needing to invade Iraq, there have been no WMDs in iraq for the last 10 years, i?m surpised that Saddam could have built a house, let alone a fcuking nuke. From the sources that i have seem it seems saddam was playing a dangerous game of bluff, to try and keep his neighbours and the UN scared so they didn?t realise what a shambles the Army and generally the country had become.

The colation went into iraq for political reasons not to save the fcking world from a nuclear holcust.

Yes there are also political and strategic reasons, what's your point?

[Yao]

Re: Bush takes no personal responsibility for Iraq WMD error

This war was all about WMD?s, and now things have been fucked up everyone is shouting ?the world is better off without Saddam?. What a lame excuse.
If that would be the reason, there would be a lot more wars to be fought, but it ain?t gonna happen. The Bush administration clearly had it?s mind set to Iraq, period. It was a war that should NOT have been started, I was there demonstrating in Berlin against it.

There have almost constantly been threats to the US or Europe, the shift just went from Russia and it?s satellite states to the Middle East. The cold war ended, the new war went underground. Again I say that you do not fight terrorists by invading countries. They live among the people, so the best way of dealing with them is through special ops: less display of activities, more accuracy.

About Saddam having WMD?s: he was forced to dismantle them, and was monitored doing it. The question was if he had enough funds to contruct new ones out of sight, or was able to hide the leftovers. Blix didn?t find any, but was pulled out prematurely. It all smells like one big fix to me. And I really have no respect whatsoever left for my own Prime-minister who was totally delighted that he was invited to have breakfast with W, crawling all over the place and kissing his arse. I hope he had to swallow, too.
And then Balkendende (our PM) said he supported the US politically, but not military. But as soon as the dirty work was done, our country sent in troops to help maintain order in Iraq...in the most remote area possible. In addition to that, he totally wrecked this country with his economical reforms, saving money from those areas that should not be touched at all: health care and education.

I don?t know what disgusts me more: the war, or our PM acting like a total arse-licking-piece-of-shit. He had surgery last week on his foot. I hope he gets gangrene and dies from it.

[PhAntoM MeNaCe]

Look that fact is just this week an Iraqi scientist, MAHDI OBEIDI, who worked on Saddams nuclear program for over a decade, publicly said that Saddam wanted to use nuclear weapons for destruction. You can read it in his book 'THE BOMB IN MY GARDEN'. We had evidence all over the globe, Russia, Great Britain, even Egypt that said that it was an imminent threat. So we found nothing, if Bush came out and said 'sorry we(I) were mislead with misinformation, I made a mistake' would you liberals then be content? Would you respect him? Would you forgive him for going into Iraq?? The answer is not just 'no' but 'FUCK NO' So what does it matter? If a man raped your little sister then said 'sorry' would you forgive him? What joy would you guys get from hearing Bush take 'personal responsibility'??? Hmmmm, where is the accountability of John Kerry. He recieved the same information as a member of the national intelligence committee(ooops he missed 87% of the meetings-fact) He is on the record dozens of times saying Iraq needs to be 'disarmed immediately'. Where is the call for Kerry to say 'Im sorry'???????? You liberals make salacious charges about Bush and the War, fact is we're there now, we're not leaving anytime soon, and everybody needs to unite and stop the felacious insinuations.

[Jenks]

I'm outraged NeUrO!!

[ezzjoe]

I hope to God Bush gets voted out in November.

[PhAntoM MeNaCe]

I hope to God Bush gets voted out in November.

ezzjoe, I hope for humans, not God, that you find your spirit next to Laci Peterson and Ron Goldman, alone in your decadant tomb of tricky and serpentine shiftiness. your veracious appetite for calculating and guile betrayal is mendacious. have a great day.











ps: just joking!

[BSully828]

Re: Bush takes no personal responsibility for Iraq WMD error

This war was all about WMD?s,

Actually, no. Each time Bush presented his case to the UN he gave 4 main reasons (with multiple followups branching off) as to why an invasion was necessary. In on particular order he said they needed to, and I'm paraphrasing here:

1. Remove Sadam
2. End the flow of money and support to terrorist cells/groups coming from Iraq.
3. Find and dismantle all possible WMD.
4. Liberate the Iraqi people and help install a self sustaining democratic (in the sense that he people run their own country) government.

The reason that the WMD's were made such a focal point is because many of those in the global media couldn't accept that there wasn't just one giant reason to enter, so they harped on Bush to narrow the scope down to a single factor. It was a dumbass move on his part to lean towards WMDs, but he made numerous attempts to remind everyone that there were multiple reasons. Too little too late though, by that point those against the war and against Bush in general got their sound byte and ran with it.

[digitalghostx]

I hope to God Bush gets voted out in November.

Terrorists share your sentiment exactly. Although I think they use the word Allah instead of God.

[Morgan]

I hope to God Bush gets voted out in November.

Terrorists share your sentiment exactly. Although I think they use the word Allah instead of God.

THERE IS NO TERRORIST THREAT.

[toasty]

I hope to God Bush gets voted out in November.

Terrorists share your sentiment exactly. Although I think they use the word Allah instead of God.

Terrorists could care less who wins the election -- although they are probably jazzed about the idea of having an influence on it. These folks are not rational, and they will hate us and come at us no matter who is at the helm...

[PhAntoM MeNaCe]

Toasty, thank you for bringing some sense to this thread. The statement you made is the bottom line. Period.