A SAD, SAD DAY...

[mylexicon]

i dont think lobster feels the way you are saying he does...i think he feels humans have more self worth outside of materiality

I believe the same. That's why I asked him not to embrace society's understanding
of capitalism (consumerism). I don't really give a
damn how much stuff someone has. But Lobster's anger clearly stems from
the fact that the free market has given some people more money than others.

If you take posessions and popularity away......there is nothing to indicate any
inequity.

[LobsterClan]

I believe the same. That's why I asked him not to embrace society's understanding
of capitalism (consumerism). I don't really give a
damn how much stuff someone has. But Lobster's anger clearly stems from
the fact that the free market has given some people more money than others.

If you take posessions and popularity away......there is nothing to indicate any
inequity.

Without a doubt, you are trying to put words in my mouth. My anger was at viewpoints like yours, for claiming that lower class and poor people are "useless"

My anger is over the fact that good people have to work two jobs just to get by.

My anger is over the fact that 40% of the wealth is owned by 1% of the people.

My anger is over the fact that big corporations do not have to pay any taxes due to loopholes and off-shore tax havens, while raking in hundreds of millions in profits.

You, on the other hand, seem to like things just as they are.

[Jenks]

Without a doubt, you are trying to put words in my mouth. My anger was at viewpoints like yours, for claiming that lower class and poor people are "useless"

He's not saying they're useless, they're just worth less to the marketplace. Fact.

My anger is over the fact that 40% of the wealth is owned by 1% of the people.

AND it's NOT the government's job to redistribute wealth. Upward mobility is REAL in this country. You want, you work, you earn. I'm not saying it's an equal playing field, but take advantage of what's available for you in this country, nobody every said life was fair.

My anger is over the fact that big corporations do not have to pay any taxes due to loopholes and off-shore tax havens, while raking in hundreds of millions in profits.

GOOD. These corporations provide fuel for the economy and jobs. Their good fortune benefits both. I'm fine with the Fortune 500 getting tax breaks, i'm also fine with the Rich getting tax cuts, because they do in fact pay the taxes in this country.

The middle class is not left with the tax burden. In fact, the top 50% of wage earners pay 96.03% of the taxes in this country. The IRS data is public, and you can look it up if you think i'm blowing smoke up your ass. Less than four dollars out of every $100 paid in income taxes in the United States is paid by someone in the bottom 50% of wage earners. These are facts.

You, on the other hand, seem to like things just as they are.

Please draw me a map to this utopia you speak of, where there are fields of cookies and cream, where everyone is equal, everyone is provided for...hey wait, that sounds a lot like communism, without the cookies and cream.

[Yao]

Well...why don't we start a communistic revolution with cookies and cream? If Stalin had done that, I bet people would've loved being in the Gulags...

[Kobe]

So who IS going to pay for the war on Iraq?

We will......

Seems like a strange time for record tax cuts.

[sacredawe78]

lobster...these people do not care...they argue to uphold disparriagement....they like the way things are

probably have never been poor enough to see or feel the burdens of this system...

i dont see how else they could be so ignorant and brainwashed

[thesightless]

Re: A SAD, SAD DAY...

and you argue that we should all live in an aldous hxley novel.

"have you taken your soma?"

[mylexicon]

Without a doubt, you are trying to put words in my mouth. My anger was at viewpoints like yours, for claiming that lower class and poor people are "useless"

Whoa, slow down for a sec. I never said the entire lower class was useless.
"utterly useless" was not an adjective describing the lower class but was part of the
proper name. In other words I was referring to those people in the lower class
who are utterly useless......thos people who produce absolutely nothing and
they consume enormously large amounts of government money and
resources.......like a parasite.

My anger is over the fact that good people have to work two jobs just to get by.

My anger is over the fact that 40% of the wealth is owned by 1% of the people.

My anger is over the fact that big corporations do not have to pay any taxes due to loopholes and off-shore tax havens, while raking in hundreds of millions in profits.

You, on the other hand, seem to like things just as they are.

Ask the government why things are the way they are. Why does the government
insist that our middle class work 3-4 months out of the year to pay their tax
expense. Ask liberals why they are insistent on driving prices up and wages
down by slashing corporate profitability with overly restrictive legislation. Ask
the government why everyone in America even the poorest of the poor are
forced to have insurance. Ask the government why the won't focus on reforming
corporate civil litigation that causes depressed corporate earnings and expensive
products. Ask the Government why they refuse to teach finance and accounting in high school even though we live in a capitalistic society.
Would you take a sledgehammer and use it to smash your own hand?
If no, then you shouldn't support destroying corporate America. It is part of
our system......one of the most important parts. It is a tool people can use
to generate cashflows until they can become financially independent. Furthermore,
corporations give us many of the products we "need" to survive.

Besides most corporations don't make hundreds of millions of dollars. They
may generate that much in revenues, but after all of the expenses and salaries
are paid most of them only retain about 10%-20% of that number. Very few
corporations will ever see those types of earnings or revenues ever. You need
to stop basing your beliefs upon a tiny percentage of the entire story.

[thesightless]

.Besides most corporations don't make hundreds of millions of dollars. They
may generate that much in revenues, but after all of the expenses and salaries
are paid most of them only retain about 10%-20% of that number. Very few
corporations will ever see those types of earnings or revenues ever. You need
to stop basing your beliefs upon a tiny percentage of the entire story

Actually, the average profit margin is about 10 percent higher in the US, more towars the 35% margin for large and small firms. the medium sized firms drop a bit because of expansion and savings. but there are about 20 times more small sized firms (i.e. sole owners or small LLP's) than the rest of all businesses.

these businesses are the ones creating the money that we all live on.

[mylexicon]

Sorry I should have been more specific, when i say retain I mean retained earnings. Net income - after dividends and preferred stock
payouts. Which get taxed twice.

[mixu]

This is not a party political topic, it's a US problem ? the richest nation on earth has 1 in 8 people living below the poverty line. Democrats and Republicans both play up to businesses because that's how you gain/stay in power.

Last year [2002] alone, another 1.7 million Americans slipped below the poverty line, bringing the total to 34.6 million, one in eight of the population. Over 13 million of them are children. In fact, the US has the worst child poverty rate and the worst life expectancy of all the world's industrialised countries, and the plight of its poor is worsening.

https://www.guardian.co.uk/uselections2004/story/0,13918,1076608,00.html

I shouldn't need to tell you that this kind of poverty creates all kinds of social problems that the US really shouldn't have. I'm not suggesting abandon capitalism or start taxing corporations heavily ? just addressing the fact that something needs to happen here.

[Civic_Zen]

It is a party specific issue in most people's minds, didn't you hear anything Kerry had to say during the Debates?? Democrats as a whole want to raise taxes for the highest tax brackets, that effects small business owners more then anything else and would also effect corporations. People are always getting on Bush for lowering the taxes of corporations, but thats what lexicon was talking about.

[Balanc3]

Fact. Bush win was GOOD for the market. Kerry win would have meant a loss.

Not sure I'm ready for another recession, one lay off was enough. But now that Nov. 2 has passed, I'm not as concerned. Most Americans don't know how to take advantage of capitalism, a major barrier but regardless Americans should not have to carry the weight of their neighbors. I pitty no fool.

[asdf_admin]

Balanc3 that is not entirely true ... after any election most stocks do go up ... but the question is will they stay up.

[santo26]

Re: A SAD, SAD DAY...

Is courious but in the history of USA the % of citizens that vote, was the hier in history, and as the resoult, means, Usa citizens likes war