Being Poor

[floridaorange]

Re: Being Poor

I do think that literacy is as big of a necessity as food, clothing or shelter and I would also agree that if those 4 needs are not being met right now, the knowledge at hand would certainly not be taken very seriously.

[Miroslav]

Re: Being Poor

no i dont think so, i know so!! but its a process, cant happen overnight!
its a matter of physical laws, like gravity and you can understand gravity coz its so obvious. well mind over matter is obvious too coz fear of not having and starving manifests as not having and starving!
i grew up in slovenia, former federative socialist republic of yugoslavia, where knowledge was very limited and controlled by government. we came a long way from there and maybe because of all over lack of everything we have more desire to change things for the better than ppl in the western world.
i dont do anything for a living anymore, i have retired from work and now money works for me - it was my goal and there was no doubt in my focus! it took me 1 year to realize it, but it took me about 2 years to learn and get it and accept the fact that i am responsible for my life, for all the good and the bad things in life, including the car accidents, bad relationships,..
now i'm moving even further than that and its even more interesting, finding out about 7D reality, time-space perspective and so on.

seriously guys if you need any guidance to what to study please ask, i'd be glad to help, but dont waste your energy trying to oppose my saying coz everything IS energy and wherever you give your focus to, there is where it will take you, it is that simple!

Ok, just one more post from me on this... I know it won't change your opinions, and that is fine; it's a free enough world and it's not my goal to make you think like me, anyways. I just post because I like to express my thoughts about this (and I have too much time on my hands).

Look, I know you're trying to come from a good place as far as your intentions are concerned. And I do think that there is a lot of truth to what you say as far as peoples' thoughts and feelings - conscious or not - creating the reality they experience. I read Neale Donald Walsch, too, and I've dabbled in some of this (for lack of a better term) "new age" mind-makes-reality philosophy. I know about the have-do-be vs. the be-do-have paradigm, and I really that it has power that most people underestimate.

But when we take this too far, then it starts being intellectual insanity and, to some extent, arrogance. That's the danger with Walsch and others like him; it makes a lot of sense in most cases, but it is extremely seductive to apply the intellectual "symmetry" of it across all cases to the extreme. It's seductively easy to interpret everything in life as having "meant to be" because of how it turned out for you - especially in hindsight after you've managed to make it big. But then you take your one experience in hindsight and you project that in principle onto everyone else's life experience - of which you obviously have no direct personal knowledge. This leads to a lot of problems.

So let's be real:

(1) Not all physical environmental realities that are caused to "be" in your experience just by the power of your thoughts. Some things just physically happen due to circumstances beyond your control. This is particularly true in the short term.

If you are traveling in a narrow valley path and you come across a big boulder blocking your path, then you can't just will it to go away. It is physically there. It just is. If you're having a heart attack, you can't just "think" yourself into a different reality.

Now, you can in the first case control in the short term how you react to the situation. And in the longer term, yes, you can turn thought into action and change your reality; perhaps you find another way around the boulder, or perhaps you develop a technology that lets you explode or drill through that boulder. Then the reality changes.

As another example, if I were to take you and lock you in a prison cell where you have no access to food or water, you cannot "mind over matter" your way into nourishment. Unless you find a way to escape or to get sustenance that your body needs, you will die regardless of what you think (or don't think).

And this is also the case with the child in Africa that is dying of hunger. Let's not be ridiculous: it's not dying because it "mind controlled" itself into a reality of starvation. It's dying because the food is physically not there. And it is not that child's fault that it doesn't "know" how to change the paradigms of its reality; it's dying due to circumstances literally beyond its control. It doesn't have time to learn your process and be-do-have, etc. It needs to find food now.

And so it is with many other circumstances. It's great that you grew up in a country that is light years ahead of many places in Africa and that you've presumably made your millions through business investment (as best as I can infer). It sounds like you're very clever, you had the right mindset, and you made it big. Good for you. I'm sure you did harness the power of thought to form your own reality.

But it's a seductive fallacy to believe that everyone can just will themselves over the longer term to become a millionaire investor whiz like you, when they can't even find food to make it through tomorrow... when they have never even seen modern plumbing or held money in their hand... when they have never been to school. If you had been born in the place of that child, chances are that you would not have become the millionaire investor you are today.

And I'm sure that in the longer term, that African child could use thought-into-reality to change its paradigms of reality and become successful like you... if you could take it out of those pressing near-term realities and put it into different circumstances, like the ones you had.

But here's the big irony of all of this: You already live well. You've made it big, and now you have the luxury of sitting around and indulging in all of these thoughts steeped in new-age philosophy and projecting your experience on others. That child does not. To take it to the extreme where you start believing that all people who are not well off are ultimately responsible for their plight is, in my mind, a subtle but pervasive arrogance that ironically taints what on the surface seems to be pure intention of helping others.

I think you'll find that the world does not change anytime soon to foster many millionaire investor whizes like you. And I'm sure you'll be able to explain that away by peoples' failure to understand these laws of physical reality the way you think you do. As you said, you're forming your own reality through your views... and you're free to do that. But as to whether the conclusions you reach are even physically logical or realistic for others' experiences - that is another question (and the answer, by the way, has nothing to do with what you've come to believe through your set of experiences). But to each his / her own.

My point with all of this is not that people should give up and be victims of their circumstance. My point is that there are people whose circumstances enable them to make it further, and they should help those who cannot necessarily change their circumstances - especially those who face pressing short-term circumstances beyond their control. Once they are on a certain foundation, then they can help themselves. That, to me, is more compassionate than believing that everyone has the same shot that you've had at leading a life where at least their basic survival needs are met.

That's the reality I've created for myself, at least. Oh well, it seems to be working for me.

[floridaorange]

Re: Being Poor

Katkich you are not talking about children, correct?

[DIDI]

Re: Being Poor

Err I think we all start out as children.

Miroslav . Brilliant !!! And polite

[floridaorange]

Re: Being Poor

I am looking to confirm that Kaltich is speaking about what adults do with their lives. Everyone knows children do not decide where or when they are born and who their parents are. Children are dependent on someone else to survive, if they do not survive until adulthood, then that is obviously to no fault of their own. Nobody is as eloquent as Miro on MS and many of his points were relevant clearly.

[DIDI]

Re: Being Poor

Are you taking my remark about Miroslav as a negative?? I liked his post so much I have saved it!! I have enormous respect for him. When I say brilliant that is exactly what I mean!!. You may have noticed I don't do subtle

I would actually say his points are exceedingly relevant. I don't quite know how you could get negative from my post.

[spyros]

Re: Being Poor

Originally Posted by Katkich
no i dont think so, i know so!! but its a process, cant happen overnight!
its a matter of physical laws, like gravity and you can understand gravity coz its so obvious. well mind over matter is obvious too coz fear of not having and starving manifests as not having and starving!

so if we agree that physical laws do work the way you say and they have positive effects on peoples miserable lives.. i would also assume these are inexpensive methods of curing peoples minds, and the only downside is the fact that it takes some time for the results to show (but in Africa they have plenty anyway)... why governments dont use these methods in order to make people happier?

[floridaorange]

Re: Being Poor

Are you taking my remark about Miroslav as a negative?? I liked his post so much I have saved it!! I have enormous respect for him. When I say brilliant that is exactly what I mean!!. You may have noticed I don't do subtle

I would actually say his points are exceedingly relevant. I don't quite know how you could get negative from my post.

You actually mistook what said greatly

[DIDI]

Re: Being Poor

I should have waited till you answered my question

[Aleks_B]

Re: Being Poor

what an interesting discussion! too tired now from reading this thread and working all day but i will reply back tomorrow.

[Kat]

Re: Being Poor

Ok, I will do my best and try to answer you Miroslav. You have a good point there and it is actually true but not for the common obvious reasons. To answer you I need to go further, which honestly I didn’t want to do because of the responses I got so far (and by so far I mean just a first stage of the knowledge I have), but I will try to sound understandable for an open mind.

Btw Didi you’re right, I could have answered you more politely instead of that rant I posted, I just wanted people to be open minded for another possibility. + I haven’t made these things up, I studied and experienced them.

Anyway, as I said before it is a process and many people will die. When I was in a process of manifesting my 3D reality filled with money and material things I was also bothered with a fact that those poor kids don’t have that opportunity but I honestly decided to ignore that fact for the time being and went on with my manifestations. But when I reached a point where my material needs were met (and it was easy), I was ready to dig in and tried to make a reason out of that. So I studied further. Now I need to mention here at the beginning it is no religion (which btw is another artificial system imposed to control masses but is based on oldest knowledge that carries the truth). In my studies I have learned that our 3D reality is not the whole picture we are seeing and it goes way way beyond our obvious senses. Well you mentioned Neale and the point that he has it is also not very obvious but it goes deeper and his "meant to be" statement is not just plain and simple “lets believe blindly it will take us somewhere better” kind of thing. As I mentioned I studied further and learned of our 7 planes of existence which cannot be intellectually reasoned but has to be experienced to be realized and allowed by our ego – and our ego is extremely intellectual being and wont allow for anything “airy fairy” to pass. So I started with meditation and realized there are senses beyond our 5 physical ones. Ok I mentioned Akashic records before which exist on a 6th plane and can be accessed thru meditation or certain state of mind. These records can be understood as a vast library that contains all of the information form all minds of all people in the world, kind of a joined common mind (still dualistic tho). The fact is we are all reading from this library but we are unaware of it. When you learn to go deep into the meditation you can consciously access you subconscious mind that is connected to this library and search for the information you need. Ok I’ll stop here, I mentioned this just to give you some sort of intellectual sense of what these planes of existence (also) represent.

That big boulder blocking your path you mentioned is in a way a physical manifestation of the answer to your question in a “meant to be” sort of way, coz you will have to go around it and it will physically change your path and your reality will take a different route – it may seem insignificant to your naked eye but it will change the set of events that will happen next for you – ok if you connect your mind to a 7th plane at that moment you can get a direct answer of what this change actually means.

I realize how this may be understood but trust me I know what I’m talking about and I have experienced it and much more. If you study quantum physics for example you’d hear a lot about and empty space that is “glued” together by a frequency that our physical eyes see as a solid object. That joke feather made about “there is no spoon” is actually very true. The thing that is the glue is the information or intention a certain mind projects. And so on…

So, back to the point why those kids are dying. Well it still is a choice but exists on a 7th plane and is not within our earthly 3D reasons and is a part of each and every one of us coz we are all connected – how are we connected, why,… for me to explain this to you in a sensible way would be almost impossible considering I’d be explaining this to beginners in this field.
But florida is right, I was not talking about those kids(although these laws apply to them too), I was talking about using the knowledge about physical laws and manifesting our 3D reality out of this artificial “being poor” world. Those statements in the original post also do not include starving dying kids from Africa, coz they cant know how much everything costs,… and also I said for those 4 kids I have adopted, I am paying for their education too. So “being poor” is a choice for each and every one in this conversation and each and everyone can learn this laws and uses them, coz these are natural and recession isn’t!!

Plus I wish I had a way with words like Miroslav does, English is not my mother tongue and I am trying my best to explain myself.

Oh and have-do-be reality does not exit

[DIDI]

Re: Being Poor

Now it all makes sense!! We just exclude all those poor kids.

Btw The polite comment was a reference to the fact that he is so much more polite than I am !!

[Miroslav]

Re: Being Poor

So, back to the point why those kids are dying. Well it still is a choice but exists on a 7th plane and is not within our earthly 3D reasons and is a part of each and every one of us coz we are all connected – how are we connected, why,… for me to explain this to you in a sensible way would be almost impossible considering I’d be explaining this to beginners in this field.

So if I understand this correctly: it's a "choice" by the kids to die, but it is a choice that is manifested somewhere in the 7th plane of existence where we are all connected, and I can't understand what that means. I'm sorry, but I'm just not buying that at this point.

Again, I think there is a lot of value in meditation and in many of the ideas that you're talking about.. And I haven't spent the time you have on this, so maybe some day I'll see things differently. But even though you claim this is not a religion, I see qualities to those statements that honestly are quite close to things I've heard from cults and other "new age" faith-based dogmas (they also oftentimes claim they are not religions) - and when you combine it with a righteous assertion of "I know this is true", that really sets of warning bells in my head (they also claim that, too). I have been around a lot of competing man-made "systems" that attempt to explain life and existence through any combination of ritualism, meditation, symbolism, dogma theory, etc. (there are a so many), and most of them have some important aspects of truth to them... but they all start to produce eerily similar behaviors in people when they are taken to their full extreme.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree at this point, because I don't think we'll see eye to eye on this. But that's ok. As I said before, I have no agenda in converting you to my view, and you're obviously free to do as you see best for yourself. There are tons of views and beliefs out there that I personally don't accept, but I respect others' right to believe them, so long as they do no harm to others in the process.

Are you taking my remark about Miroslav as a negative?? I liked his post so much I have saved it!! I have enormous respect for him. When I say brilliant that is exactly what I mean!!. You may have noticed I don't do subtle

I would actually say his points are exceedingly relevant. I don't quite know how you could get negative from my post.

Didi, you're too kind.

[Shpira]

Re: Being Poor

I've experienced a lot of those when I was a kid. . .During the early nineties when Yugoslavia was under sanctions.

[DIDI]

Re: Being Poor

So if I understand this correctly: it's a "choice" by the kids to die, but it is a choice that is manifested somewhere in the 7th plane of existence where we are all connected, and I can't understand what that means. I'm sorry, but I'm just not buying that at this point.

Again, I think there is a lot of value in meditation and in many of the ideas that you're talking about.. And I haven't spent the time you have on this, so maybe some day I'll see things differently. But even though you claim this is not a religion, I see qualities to those statements that honestly are quite close to things I've heard from cults and other "new age" faith-based dogmas (they also oftentimes claim they are not religions) - and when you combine it with a righteous assertion of "I know this is true", that really sets of warning bells in my head (they also claim that, too). I have been around a lot of competing man-made "systems" that attempt to explain life and existence through any combination of ritualism, meditation, symbolism, dogma theory, etc. (there are a so many), and most of them have some important aspects of truth to them... but they all start to produce eerily similar behaviors in people when they are taken to their full extreme.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree at this point, because I don't think we'll see eye to eye on this. But that's ok. As I said before, I have no agenda in converting you to my view, and you're obviously free to do as you see best for yourself. There are tons of views and beliefs out there that I personally don't accept, but I respect others' right to believe them, so long as they do no harm to others in the process.


Didi, you're too kind.

There goes my tough guy image