100,000 civilians killed in Iraq?

[Yao]

Good posts, FTC, Davetlv and Mixu. Glad to see there's still some sensible people around this board.

As for runningman and Robprunzit: it am not fast in calling people racists, but you sure as hell are going that direction.

As Dave said: the hatred and anger can be understandable, but should never ever prevail over rationale. Because that way you'll never see the other side of a story and become a fundamentalist of your own thoughts.

[runningman]

leave race out of it.. i am white.. i hate some white people.. i don't like any race to be honest.. because humans are humans.. and if it goes your way we will all be dead soon.. if the USA stops backing the Isrealies then let's see what dave has to say then.. it is like we have given the jews a free do what u want card.. soon that will stop i hope.. that is what is getting the USA into so much trouble.. fight that war on your own.. if the two of you (palestinieans and jews) killed each other the world would be a much safer place..it always comes back to the same people in every war.. Jews.. you people really are cursed.. so get a long or it will always be like this. i'm not the problem.. i am the guy trying to fix the problem.. it has been this way before i wass even born.. so all you out there saying i am the problem that is a bunch shit and you know it.. I wish for peace but i am a realist.. it is never going to happen as long as Israel is next to palestine..

[mixu]

if the two of you (palestinieans and jews) killed each other the world would be a much safer place..it always comes back to the same people in every war.. Jews.. you people really are cursed..

More wise words

F*cking idiot...

[davetlv]

leave race out of it.. i am white.. i hate some white people.. i don't like any race to be honest.. because humans are humans.. and if it goes your way we will all be dead soon.. if the USA stops backing the Isrealies then let's see what dave has to say then.. it is like we have given the jews a free do what u want card.. soon that will stop i hope.. that is what is getting the USA into so much trouble.. fight that war on your own.. if the two of you (palestinieans and jews) killed each other the world would be a much safer place..it always comes back to the same people in every war.. Jews.. you people really are cursed.. so get a long or it will always be like this. i'm not the problem.. i am the guy trying to fix the problem.. it has been this way before i wass even born.. so all you out there saying i am the problem that is a bunch shit and you know it.. I wish for peace but i am a realist.. it is never going to happen as long as Israel is next to palestine..

So much to answer to. . . its funny runningman, i actually understand some the things you said, i might not necessarily agree with you, but i do understand. Now however . . . .

First thing first, don't fool yourself matey the alliance between the USA and Israel is symbiotic - we both need each other. Israel clearly needs a powerful friend in this world full of pussy nations whilst the USA need a foothold in the middle east. But it wasn't always like that. Prior to the 6 day war (1967) Israel biggest ally, in terms of military know how etc, was actually France (yeah i know, go figure!). its only when France cancelled military contracts in June 1967 did the USA seize the opportunity to develop the relationship. I'm pleased they did; but i reckon it probably had a lot more to do with the fight against communism then it did about support Israel.

Secondly, as for your comment about a 'do as you want card', if such a thing were really to exist, under Israels present leadership, do you not think we would have been slighty more aggresive; and believe me our military have been holding themselves back!

Thirdly, the war on terror did not start after 9/11, Israel has been fighting it, and warning about it, for nearly 40 years. I refer you back to my previous post on how islamic fundamentalism developed.

Fourthly, your comments about it comes back to the same people in every war . . . you're right; WW1, WW2, Korea, Vietnam - these are all wars started or caused by Jews. You are a very funny man!

Finally, i'm not saying you are the problem. You certainly can not be held responsible for the rise in fundamentalism; I also don't believe that you personally, or the USA generally, is responsible in way for the continuation of this rise. Its just how things are; every thousand years or so this planet goes a little bit mad; the romans did it, the christians did it and the muslims are doing it.

Its just how it is bro!

[robprunzit]

Re: 100,000 civilians killed in Iraq?

PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2004 7:09 pm Post subject:
you guys are fucking racists. you are at a point of no return that talking sense to you is hopeless - it's a waste of time & energy. having a political take and discussing it within limits is one thing, being flatout a disgrace to humanity is another thing. i feel sorry for the people you might influence during your vile lives... Mad Now

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2004 5:10 am Post subject:
robprunzit...

I thought you had a few more brain cells than that. Your post isn't even worth replying to ? uneducated, bigoted and, quite frankly, it's pretty 'sad' that you feel you should share these 'views' with us.

-----------------------------
mixu, have you ever heard of the 'hadith', (forgive my spelling), have you ever read the Qu'ran? Give them a spin. You might change you opinion.

These arent just 'views', they are observations. FTC, what is this about limits. Since where do I need to follow a protocal of political correctness on a forum discussing political topics. And yes the issue of Islam internationally is political, though it is first and foremost religious. So it is good I got your blood boiling, but why is it boiling is the question?

I'm not a bigot and I'm not racist. Very, very far from it. But I do have opinions, and I think people should speak the truth. When it comes to bashing some sectors of people, it is acceptable, but others it is not. Well, I'm explaining facts first, and opinions second. If you don't believe it, I could point out some good books written by ex-muslim middle eastern people, one from Iran, and one from Asia ... India, a mostly Hindu country. Both explaining things about Islam that most will not discuss, but it is there in the Qu'ran, and the volumes of 'hadith' journals for all to read, though the hadith may only be found in Arabic.

I've been to Muslim countries. I'm not bigoted, I just share my opinion strongly. Plenty have been strong in their lack of willingness to follow the leader of America, and in voicing their feelings about him. Can I not voice my observations about something I know something about, which happens to be a topic very few will discuss openly.

It is one thing to hate a religion for what it stands for and what it does to the people. It is another thing to hate the people. I dont hate them, actually I have many muslim friends, and I have eaten at their tables, in their homes, in their homeland. They have given me there bed to sleep on while they slept on the floor.

Some of these people I can say I care about very much. And maybe that is why I dispise the religion so very much. Like many people, some muslims have great hearts, and are very intellectual people, and some have simply been borne into a world where hatred and a backward way of life exist. And it warped them.

Most of the world will never dig deep enough to understand why they do what they do, or feel like they feel.

Two incidences I know this to be true, but did not experience them first hand. A man pooring acid on a womans face because she changed her religion and would not have sex with him, or another woman placed in a hole and dirt poored around her so only her shoulders and head are above the ground, then stoned to death because she had sex before marriage. And nothing happens to the man.

Excuse me, you need to do more than read you history books.

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Mixu: you commented...
And a point to consider ? much of the world speaks either English or Spanish while many countries are devoutly Catholic... Is it worth banging on about how 'evil' Christianity is as well?
-------------------------

Oh, however you read something into what I said about Christianity, was completely misinterpreted. Christianity is certainly the polar opposite of 'evil'.

And yes, Dave made alot of sense. That was a well thought out post, except one thing. In my opinion it goes back more than the 100 or 20 years. It goes back more than 2000 years.

Mixu, read one of the best history books, the Bible.

[mixu]

Rob,

We can go back and forth with this... but there's no point ? and maybe some opinions aren't being expressed particularly well. Your last post is far better than the previous one:

Islam's goal is to dominate the world and control it in a governmental Islamic state. That has always been the goal, and it has never gone away. Only the plan changes.

Change Islam for Jews here and you might as well be talking about The Protocols of the Elders of Zion...

My point about Christianity and history was that the Crusades were basically about 'reclaiming' the Holy Lands ? and killing Arabs and Jews. Christianity has been imposed on much of the world, particularly South America, through force and often violent colonial powers...

I'm defending neither Islam or Christianity in this respect, just pointing out the fact that over the past 2,000 years people have used the name of both religions for the wrong reasons. And in that respect it's hard to say one is worse than the other.

[Yao]

I do agree with Mixu, but your last post has given me a bit insight in your thinking Robprunzit.
I take back what I said about being a racist. I obviously jumped the gun at that and apologize for it.

We all know about the maltreatment of women in Muslim countries, and the corrupted version that is passed on to uneducated Muslims by their clergy in some places.
But I don't hate the religion, I don't hate the people. I hate the people that corrupt it and transform a belief that is intrinsically not bad into an intellectual monstrosity.

The same has happened with Christianity and Jews. They've gone past this stage for various reasons, but Islam just won't move an inch into the future thanks to uneducation and extremism combined, among other reasons.

[runningman]

I am sick of arguing about muslims.. I have heard all this crap about me being racist and robprunzit also civic zen.. I still have not heard of anyones plan to stop the muslims from there goal of becoming a global islamic state.. they spread like wild fire.. Why is it then that everyone in the world has a problem with muslims.. THe seiks hate them the christians hate them the jews hate them, even the chinese hate them.. So why is it that the christians are painted red?? We aren't fighting with the rest of the world.. they are.. and you playboy people come on here and say stupid shit.. If you know muslims treat there woman bad then if you defend them then i can call you a sexist.. Right u call me a racist because of my views on this so you must be that then right??

Yao said
but Islam just won't move an inch into the future thanks to uneducation and extremism combined, among other reasons.

So how do we fix it?? I would rather have the fight overseas in the middle east then sitting like a guppy waiting for the next punch.. If u don't have a plan to back your arguement of saying "The USA is bad for fighting the war on terror" then you have absolutely nothing usefull to say.. Bush has a plan and if he decides to go into Iran damn it Canada better as well or i am leaving.. Bush has a meeting with our Prime Minister Nov. 30.. I bet the whole conversation will be about foreign policy..

[mixu]

Re: 100,000 civilians killed in Iraq?

Can someone tell me when the world's Muslim population got together and decided they wanted to take over the globe?

[runningman]

they don't need to get together.. they want everyone to be muslim.. if not they will try to take over once there population gets bigger then the home nation.. If u don't like it they go to war.. Jihad.. war against there religion so they can kill you..

[mixu]

runningman, you're a real comedian ? that's hilarious!

[sacredawe78]

they don't need to get together.. they want everyone to be muslim.. if not they will try to take over once there population gets bigger then the home nation.. If u don't like it they go to war.. Jihad.. war against there religion so they can kill you..

sounds to me a lot like the Spanish inqusition, the crusades, the witch burnings, etc. etc.

i believe those were all in the name of Christianity

its not just Islam that is stupid, its both

monotheistic religions are arrogant and induce a latent xenophobia over time...history has shown that for both

so dont avoid speaking more clearly of what the real problem is

[Yao]

monotheistic religions are arrogant and induce a latent xenophobia over time...history has shown that for both

Just for this once...I agree with you. Only this time.

And the arrogance is not neccesarily the attitude of the people, but more the way it is put in the world by 'the book', be it a Bible, Qu'ran or Thora.
The books and texts mostly deny the possibility of any other faith, which would automatically lead to xenophobia.

People however, have the freedom to do different, to interpret different. Wish they'd do that more often.

[pointme]

Re: 100,000 civilians killed in Iraq?

The books and texts mostly deny the possibility of any other faith, which would automatically lead to xenophobia.

People however, have the freedom to do different, to interpret different. Wish they'd do that more often.

Nuff said!

[gokada]

come on Garrick! youy believe that shit?
that?s what they tell you.....that?s what they want you to think
the american soldiers kills. and your fucking bombs too

I believe it. Oh wait...I forgot...the only reason we are in Iraq is to see how many women and children we can kill. Or is that what they told you??

thank you evangelion...