Bush's New Plan for Iraq

[toasty]

OK, the new plan has been outlined, so what do people think? Here's the fact sheet from the White House's web site:

Fact Sheet: The New Way Forward in Iraq

Overview:

The President's New Iraq Strategy Is Rooted In Six Fundamental Elements:

1. Let the Iraqis lead;
2. Help Iraqis protect the population;
3. Isolate extremists;
4. Create space for political progress;
5. Diversify political and economic efforts; and
6. Situate the strategy in a regional approach.

Great ideas, all of them. I'm having trouble figuring out what the "new" part is, though. Haven't we been trying to do this all along?

I haven't seen Bush's actual speech, but I gather that the most significant part about it was him admitting mistakes and taking responsibility for them. Too little, too late, IMO, especially when the admission of mistakes is not accompanied by a significant change in course to correct those mistakes.

I dunno. In the interest of trying to put this in the best possible light, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that, on the ground, things will actually be different and try to have some patience. On the other hand, as McCain said when he first advocated a troop surge, if it is apparent that the troop surge isn't working after a reasonable amount of time, we've got to pull them back so that we aren't just providing insurgents with more targets...

[thesightless]

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

dude, the bruise i have on my forehead from hitting my head on my desk...................ow..

[Jenks]

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

[toasty]

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

That is the most random picture I've ever seen.

[88Mariner]

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

what about the notice he's given to Iran and Syria? I'd say that's new, isn't it? Needs to be done, imo.

[Localizer]

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

OK, the new plan has been outlined, so what do people think? Here's the fact sheet from the White House's web site:

Fact Sheet: The New Way Forward in Iraq

Overview:



Great ideas, all of them. I'm having trouble figuring out what the "new" part is, though. Haven't we been trying to do this all along?

I haven't seen Bush's actual speech, but I gather that the most significant part about it was him admitting mistakes and taking responsibility for them. Too little, too late, IMO, especially when the admission of mistakes is not accompanied by a significant change in course to correct those mistakes.

I dunno. In the interest of trying to put this in the best possible light, I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that, on the ground, things will actually be different and try to have some patience. On the other hand, as McCain said when he first advocated a troop surge, if it is apparent that the troop surge isn't working after a reasonable amount of time, we've got to pull them back so that we aren't just providing insurgents with more targets...

I watched the speech live. He hasn't admitted any of his faults; only provided more execuses for seeking out new strategies. And in doing so, he's emphasized that we will lose more Iraqi and American people. I don't sit well with this.

[toasty]

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

what about the notice he's given to Iran and Syria? I'd say that's new, isn't it? Needs to be done, imo.

I guess. It seems like much of it was just the same old, same old, though -- I guess the difference is that we really mean it this time?

[88Mariner]

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

well i goddamn hope so. when you've got iran aiding the the counter-insurgency forces in iraq, not just with equipment but with actual fighters...you've gotta address the problem pronto.

[Lorn]

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

To address the problems he either has to send in a million troops or drop a nuke. If its about our asset's over there (which it is) then the only way is to send a million troops over to make damn sure the oil flows. The oil must flow.

[superdave]

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

I watched the speech last night and only partially listened, but I did hear a couple of new points being emphasized. I also listened to others comment on the new strategy.

First, the Iraqi situation is unacceptable(the current buzz word from the admin) and Bush takes responsibility for the situation. The public should be and is frustrated with the Iraqi situation. Second, Iraq's goverment really and this time really needs to do something about the miltias and step up or we're leaving. They didn't explicitly say we'd leave, but that's the impression I got.

As for the strategy, supposedly we're going to stay in areas and hold them from insurgents. Supposedly, we've been fighting in hot zones and then going back to safe areas and the insurgents simply hide then come back once we leave. Now, we plan to stay in the area and let the infrastructure get built back up. Imo, this means more fighting and would require more troops. Also, I hear there's a new general in charge that's well respected to get things done.

Like everyone, I'm doubtful, but I think it's worth trying if they feel it could work. If it doesn't work this time, I think we'll be pulling out of Iraq.

[Jenks]

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

[KinKyJ]

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

I watched the speech last night and only partially listened, but I did hear a couple of new points being emphasized. I also listened to others comment on the new strategy.

First, the Iraqi situation is unacceptable(the current buzz word from the admin) and Bush takes responsibility for the situation. The public should be and is frustrated with the Iraqi situation. Second, Iraq's goverment really and this time really needs to do something about the miltias and step up or we're leaving. They didn't explicitly say we'd leave, but that's the impression I got.

As for the strategy, supposedly we're going to stay in areas and hold them from insurgents. Supposedly, we've been fighting in hot zones and then going back to safe areas and the insurgents simply hide then come back once we leave. Now, we plan to stay in the area and let the infrastructure get built back up. Imo, this means more fighting and would require more troops. Also, I hear there's a new general in charge that's well respected to get things done.

Like everyone, I'm doubtful, but I think it's worth trying if they feel it could work. If it doesn't work this time, I think we'll be pulling out of Iraq.

1. The situation in Iraq has always been unacceptable: the coalition never had a grip on the situation.

2. Yes the Iraqi government should take a harder position, but what are you expecting from them? First of all Iraq has never ever experienced democracy. They have to "get used to it" and learn how to play by the rules of a democracy. Secondly the government doesn't really have much authority and credibility in the eyes of the Iraqi people, which isn't used to democracy either.

Macedonia declared independance somewhat like 10 years ago. You can't call it a "retarded" country full of cavemen, but even though there are elections, a president and a parliament, there still is a long way to go before their institutions will work like they're supposed to... Installing a new political system takes time.

Rooting out the militia street by street in Baghdad is a good idea imo. But it won't end after Baghdad. Just look at the situation in Afganistan. Cleaning out the capital is just the first step if you don't want the boomerang to come back and hit you full frontal. I have serious doubts about the 20.000 btw. I heard a military specialist say on the radio that all army manuals regarding this kind of actions recommend the triple.

It's about time Bush pipes down and makes a gesture towards the Iraqis instead of setting examples. Like what? Like US troops helping the population to rebuild the infrastructure for example. KFOR troops did (and still are doing) that after the war in the Balkan, with respect, gratitude and goodwill from the local population as a result.

"Insanity can be defined by taking the same action over and over again while expecting a different result." (Albert Einstein)

[88Mariner]

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

anyone notice that GWB did not invoke "God" once in this speech? curiously wondering if this has any significance...

[thesightless]

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

anyone notice that pussy european "rules of war" are what causes countries to actually lose wars.

bring back
"shoot to kill, ask questions later" simply, because, that is what the enemy abides by while we listen and follow vaginal inspired rules from central europe, because hitler was just a little too cruel for them. its war FFS< kill em until you win, deal with shit later.

[Yao]

Re: Bush's New Plan for Iraq

Shoot to kill, ask questions later isn't exactly winning you guys the war either...

Stop thinking Black and White (either talk or shoot), it might help. IMO you'd have to shoot every last mofo in Iraq if you're not prepared to bring different ethnical/religious groups together by talking, because if you don't talk and especially listen there will never be understanding. And as a result, never peace.

If you hate talking, then good luck killing off a whole country.