Lionel Messi

[AchtungBaby!]

Re: Lionel Messi

Guys... Like i said before, i hate Maradona.. But if you focus on the second goal in the same match, you´ll understand why Maradona is such a big deal.. You know what i´m talking about here.. That first goal is just to make the mith even bigger.. Nobody cares about that goal.. i can understand you do but it´s time to move on.. Not my thing anyway.. Maradona can die today and is the same for me..

And Steve your saying Tenerife? Villareal? I think you´re missing A LOT of teams.. Arsenal (4), Real Madrid and so on.. Basically he has 0,89 goals per match this season among nearly 40 games... That´s more than anybody else this year.. Ronney, Ronaldo, Ibra, Milito, Higuain...

[bobjuice]

Re: Lionel Messi

if you focus on the second goal in the same match, you´ll understand why Maradona is such a big deal.. .

I understand that Juan. I know why he's such a big deal, because he was the best footballer of his generation by a mile and one of the best ever.

The second goal in that game would stand as one of the best goals ever scored if it wasn't for the fact the guy who scored it had just shit all over the spirit of the game, not to mention the ethos of sport itself. The guy fucking cheated, no-one will ever change that and his talent is forever tainted in the eyes of anyone who has ever loved football.
There is also the question of whether the second goal would have happened if the first hadn't.

If you were playing in a game as big as that one and your opponent had gained an advantage in such a way i think it's fair to say you'd be a little demoralised, maybe even distracted??

in saying that though, Terry Butcher and Peter Reid would have struggled to keep up with maradona in the shape he's in now, never mind then lol

[bobjuice]

Re: Lionel Messi

Gotta say though i'll always have a soft spot for "like a prayer", especially the luvdup remix. Great tune - one of his best

[Steve Graham]

Re: Lionel Messi

Guys... Like i said before, i hate Maradona.. But if you focus on the second goal in the same match, you´ll understand why Maradona is such a big deal.. You know what i´m talking about here.. That first goal is just to make the mith even bigger.. Nobody cares about that goal.. i can understand you do but it´s time to move on.. Not my thing anyway.. Maradona can die today and is the same for me..

And Steve your saying Tenerife? Villareal? I think you´re missing A LOT of teams.. Arsenal (4), Real Madrid and so on.. Basically he has 0,89 goals per match this season among nearly 40 games... That´s more than anybody else this year.. Ronney, Ronaldo, Ibra, Milito, Higuain...

1) you said 4 goals in two matches, those were the two matches
2) yeah 4 goals against arsenal, is obviously good, but shows you how shit their goal keeping is and has been for years, Almunia? lol, come on
3) again, where was he in arguably his biggest matches of the season against Inter, one of which was against ten men, and Barca had over 80% possession!
4) la liga is far from the best league in Europe, even Forlan has won the gold boot a couple of times and he was shit for United.
5) we'll see how he does in the world cup

[Haziel]

Re: Lionel Messi

The hand of God has its on merits , it was very well played ... If anything in this world pulling something like that on a world cup final in front of millions can only be done by a talented guy like Maradona . He did it and got away with it , "Fortune favours the bold" thats how I see it . To find a simple not so sophisticated word being " sneaky " is part of soccer .

[AchtungBaby!]

Re: Lionel Messi

1) you said 4 goals in two matches, those were the two matches
2) yeah 4 goals against arsenal, is obviously good, but shows you how shit their goal keeping is and has been for years, Almunia? lol, come on
3) again, where was he in arguably his biggest matches of the season against Inter, one of which was against ten men, and Barca had over 80% possession!
4) la liga is far from the best league in Europe, even Forlan has won the gold boot a couple of times and he was shit for United.
5) we'll see how he does in the world cup

1) The point is if you choose Arsenal and Real Madrid as two teams, he made not 4 but 5 goals in the same number of games.. And those teams are better than Tenerife and Villareal...
2) I don´t follow Arsenal that often but they seems to be doing a good season this year in IMO the best league in the world.. Only Manchester and Chelsea are doing it better..
3) Most important match of the year yeah, but after all they were just a goal left to reach the finals.. That can´t be awfull.. IMO awfull was Real Madrid this champions..
4) Forlan played for Manchester in 2002... 9 years later he is waaaaay better player than he was in 2002... And like i said before, Arsenal is doing it great this year, on a better league than La Liga...
5) Agree.. It will be a serious test not only for Messi but the other great players... Rooney, Cristiano, Kaká, Iniesta...

[Steve Graham]

Re: Lionel Messi

blah blah blah, lol
lets see in june
I've never denied he's a good player, but like messi... rooney and ronaldo also have a long way to go to be lauded as one of the all time greats

and Haziel, please fuck off with that bull shit, he cheated, end of

[Haziel]

Re: Lionel Messi

and Haziel, please fuck off with that bull shit, he cheated, end of

I would have rather had you persuaded me into a nice discussion about this but i see that you obviously never played soccer before... just go kick a ball against the wall son !

[Kinetic]

Re: Lionel Messi

i totally agree with Steve´s points here and I´m gonna pick the obvious example...

So, let´s see... C. Ronaldo scored 42 official goals on his best season so far ( 2007-2008 ), 31 of those on the EPL and another 8 in the CL. I wonder how´d Messi do against the EPL defenses and without someone like Xavi.

Then, on his 1st season at Madrid, Ronaldo already has 29 goals in 32 matches, despite a long-ish absence by injury and despite playing for a hugely over-hyped team. Now, the thing is, I´m not just gonna put that down to the fact that he is an outstanding player, but also to the fact that, let´s face it, La Liga has 2 teams (Real and Barça) and then a bunch of nobodies about 20 points behind those two, so i wouldn´t say either CR9 or Messi are playing exactly against the most solid defenses around...

In the end, I prefer Ronaldo´s style over Messi´s, but I count myself extremely lucky to be able to witness these 2 guys playing in my lifetime. I just don´t think it´s so clear that Messi is miles above everyone else.

[Steve Graham]

Re: Lionel Messi

messi scored a beauty today!

[Steve Graham]

Re: Lionel Messi

i totally agree with Steve´s points here and I´m gonna pick the obvious example...

So, let´s see... C. Ronaldo scored 42 official goals on his best season so far ( 2007-2008 ), 31 of those on the EPL and another 8 in the CL. I wonder how´d Messi do against the EPL defenses and without someone like Xavi.

Then, on his 1st season at Madrid, Ronaldo already has 29 goals in 32 matches, despite a long-ish absence by injury and despite playing for a hugely over-hyped team. Now, the thing is, I´m not just gonna put that down to the fact that he is an outstanding player, but also to the fact that, let´s face it, La Liga has 2 teams (Real and Barça) and then a bunch of nobodies about 20 points behind those two, so i wouldn´t say either CR9 or Messi are playing exactly against the most solid defenses around...

In the end, I prefer Ronaldo´s style over Messi´s, but I count myself extremely lucky to be able to witness these 2 guys playing in my lifetime. I just don´t think it´s so clear that Messi is miles above everyone else.

agreed la liga is not the strongest league top to bottom as compared to serie a or epl
it's more of a scottish prem, 2 giants and a load of crap.. you can tell this by looking at the past few years at the final 4 or so of the UCL

[Steve Graham]

Re: Lionel Messi

I would have rather had you persuaded me into a nice discussion about this but i see that you obviously never played soccer before... just go kick a ball against the wall son !

lol, I played for over 20 years and handling the ball was never cool, so gain, fuck off

[bobjuice]

Re: Lionel Messi

The hand of God has its on merits , it was very well played ... If anything in this world pulling something like that on a world cup final in front of millions can only be done by a talented guy like Maradona . He did it and got away with it , "Fortune favours the bold" thats how I see it . To find a simple not so sophisticated word being " sneaky " is part of soccer .

so, the more talented you are, the more it's acceptable to cheat? odd logic that

my opinion is the absolute opposite - if you're the best player in the world (and an icon/hero to millions) you have even more of a duty to do the right thing.
Who knows Haziel, you are a lot younger than me and maybe saw the "hand of god" goal as something to aspire to?? To me it appeared to be a desperate fucking low and made a mockery of the greatest tournament there is (f.a. cup excluded)

my football career peaked at a level we call in the u.k. "senior league" which is about as far as it goes before you get paid to play. Call me old-fashioned if you like but i've always been happier to achieve victory by fair means, anything less is a hollow victory indeed.
Same goes for getting beat. I'll always be able to accept being beaten by someone better than me, it can be tougher to accept being beaten by bad luck but i'll never accept being being beaten by a cheat.

That, to me, is sport.

[bobjuice]

Re: Lionel Messi

just to get back on thread, i think messi is something fucking unreal. Against Man Utd in 2008 i have to say i was in awe. United that day defended so well i don't think they'd have conceded if the game went on for another hour but i was spellbound watching Messi - i'm struggling to think of a better individual performance at that level.

I consider him a great player (as opposed to a very good one) based purely on the fact that he can take control of a game in such a way and do the things us mere mortals only dream about.

I remember seeing Paul Gascoigne play for Newcastle @ 19yrs old and absolutely running the show (in a poor Newcastle side who went on to be relegated) - they beat my team (Forest) 2-0 and fuck, we were a top 4 side then.

If you can simply dance past players as if they're not there then you're either up against kids in the park or you're fucking good.

[Haziel]

Re: Lionel Messi

lol, I played for over 20 years and handling the ball was never cool, so gain, fuck off

ORLY..... where did you play son ? on a ubbermoral Nun league ?