Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

[evangelion]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

Shit is officially hitting the fan. I hope Israel hitting that building in Qana was an accident or a mistake. 2 UN buildings are burning...riots all over the Middle East. Things are REALLYgoing to get ugly now.

[davetlv]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

Shit is officially hitting the fan. I hope Israel hitting that building in Qana was an accident or a mistake. 2 UN buildings are burning...riots all over the Middle East. Things are REALLYgoing to get ugly now.

See what really happened at Qana: Hizbullah deliberately endangers Lebanese civilians, in order to kill more Israeli civilians

[evangelion]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

So is that the actual footage from the Qana strike?? Guided weapons are supposed to be accurate within feet...seems to me they could have hit the launcher and not the building.

[KinKyJ]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

So is that the actual footage from the Qana strike?? Guided weapons are supposed to be accurate within feet...seems to me they could have hit the launcher and not the building.

if that wasn't so, they wouldn't pause the air strikes (not the shellings from the ground tho') for 48hrs.

In 1996 Qana was hit as well (Operation Grapes of Wrath), making about 106 civilian casualties and 116 wounded. Explanation of the Israeli military: "We couldn't see what was going on on the ground." Meaning that there was no camera on the unmanned plane in the area and the pilots of the two choppers nearby were blind. Uhu.

Amnesty International conducted an on-site investigation of the incident in collaboration with military experts, using interviews with UNIFIL staff and civilians in the compound, and posing questions to the IDF, who did not reply. Amnesty concluded, "the IDF intentionally attacked the UN compound, although the motives for doing so remain unclear. The IDF have failed to substantiate their claim that the attack was a mistake. Even if they were to do so they would still bear responsibility for killing so many civilians by taking the risk to launch an attack so close to the UN compound."

Yes, Hezbollah may be hiding amongst civilians, but the IAF fucked up royally here. For the second time.

[davetlv]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

Timeline:

10 pm (GMT) 29th July 2006 Israel fires missiles at launcher and building in Qana
5 am (GMT) 30th July 2006 Building collapses killing Lebanese Civillians

So what happened inbetween?

Why does a building take 7 or so hours to be collapse? Why were those in the building not evacuated at 10 pm GMT?

[KinKyJ]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

^^^ hey, give the UN officials a break. Placing charges under that building in order to make the IAF look bad, takes some time. [/sarcasm]

[davetlv]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

Kinky as usual, as is your pattern here, you seem to negate basic facts.

If the building was hit at 10 pm GMT and fell at 5 am GMT why were people not evacuated from the building once it was hit.

Could it be that missile strike didn't cause the collapse and the murder of the mainly woman and children?

Could it be that the building itself was destroyed by those wishing to gain maximum PR coverage out of it? We know that Hizbollah have no problem with the murder of innocents!

And talking of maximum coverage, its not just the time line of the destruction thats dodgy, so is the apparent resuce service as this blog shows,

[KinKyJ]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

JERUSALEM (CNN) -- Israel's Security Cabinet has approved an expansion of the ground campaign against Hezbollah guerrillas in Lebanon, Israeli officials said early Tuesday.

The announcement came hours after Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said his military was inflicting heavy damage on Hezbollah and rejected international calls for a cease-fire until Israel has pushed the Shiite Muslim militia back from its borders.

"Quite a few days of fighting are still before us," Olmert told a conference of local officials.

The Israeli Security Cabinet last week rejected a call from military leaders to widen the Lebanon offensive but authorized a call-up of about 15,000 reserve soldiers. There was no immediate explanation for the reversal.

Full story

[thesightless]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

i just wanted to say something about this as i have opted to stay out of it. i made my points and opinions earlier, and hopefully did a good job explaining it.

but

this is a never ending fight, simply for the fact that the muslim community in the region doesnt want, need, or desire the fighting to end. those in power of the mlitias and mosques actually thrive and enjoy within the violence. if they, or thier minions die, especially at the hands of either the Jewish people, the USA, the EU or the UN choices, then they only gain favor within the uneducated societies that they themselves often hold down. and if they do not fight, they lose everything they have spoken for, acted upon and wished to gain.

its monstrously cyclical. the isrealis are in the worst spot, simply because it is not a person or government they are trying to save themselves from. its a population. and if they do not act, they only allow a repeat of the cycle. the islamist groups who seek to reclaim land they stole in the first place will only re-arm, re-recruit, and do it all over again.

so wish all you want, this isnt going to end until either we allow someone to act appropriatly for the long term and eliminate the groups, or until the region itself sees that the rest of the world is better off and wants to catch up, rather than regress. the governments need to step up and police thier own peoples, offer a promise of flourishment, and stop trying to install religious will on a few million square miles.

[beanzncheez]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

bump. Before this falls off of the first page.

[thesightless]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

for sono & bullululu and everyone else calling isreal monsters for defending themselves against an army that doesnt wear a uniform or follow the geneva rules of war.

Hezbollywood? Evidence mounts that Qana collapse and deaths were stagedBy Reuven Koret July 31, 2006 It was to be a perfect Hollywood ending for Hezbollah. Just as the Israeli bombing of the village of Qana in 1996 brought a premature end to Israel's Operation "Grapes of Wrath," so too a sequel of Qana II could change, once and for all, the direction of Israel's current summer blockbuster, "Change of Direction." Ten years ago, world condemnation of an errant Israeli shell that hit a civilian compound forced then-PM Shimon Peres to curtail the offensive against terror bases.

The setting was also perfect: Kana was again being used as a primary site for launching rockets against Israeli cities. The IDF reported that more than 150 rockets had been launched from Qana and its vicinity at Israeli civilians, wreaking destruction in Kiryat Shmona, Maalot, Nahariya and Haifa. It was only a matter of time before the Israeli Air Force would come for a visit, using pinpoint targeting of the sites used to launch rockets, Hezbollah logistical centers and weapon storage facilities.

On the morning of July 30, according to the IDF, the air force came in three waves. In the first, between midnight and one in the morning, there was a strike at or near the building that eventually collapsed.

Brent Sadler of CNN reports that the Israeli ordnance did not even hit the building but landed "20 or 30 meters" from the structure.

There was a second strike at other targets far from the collapse building several hours later, and a third strike at around 7:30 in the morning. There too the nearest hit was some 460 meters away, according to the IDF. But first reports of a building collapse came only around 8 am.

Thus there was an unexplained 7 to 8 hour gap between the time of the helicopter strike and the building collapse. Brigadier General Amir Eshel, Head of the Air Force Headquarters, in a press briefing, told journalists that "the attack on the structure in the Qana village took place between midnight and one in the morning. The gap between the timing of the collapse of the building and the time of the strike on it is unclear."

Gen. Eshel appeared genuinely mystified by the gap in time. He "I'm saying this very carefully, because at this time I don't have a clue as to what the explanation could be for this gap," he added.

The army's only explanation was that somehow there was unexploded Hezbollah ordnance in the building that only detonated much later.

"It could be that inside the building, things that could eventually cause an explosion were being housed, things that we could not blow up in the attack, and maybe remained there, Brigadier General Eshel said.

Eshel reported that as recently as two days ago, military intelligence reported the building area had been used by the terrorists for storage or firing of weapons. It was a bad place to cram dozens of women and children.

There are other mysteries. The roof of the building was intact. Journalist Ben Wedeman of CNN noted that there was a larger crater next to the building, but observed that the building appeared not to have collapsed as a result of the Israeli strike.

Why would the civilians who had supposedly taken shelter in the basement of the building not leave after the post-midnight attack? They just went back to sleep and had the bad luck to wait for the building to collapse in the morning?

National Public Radio's correspondent reported that residents of that building had left and the victims were non-residents who chose to shelter in the building that night. They were "too poor" to leave the down, one resident told CNN's Wedeman. Who were these people?

What we do know is that sometime after dawn a call went hour to journalists and rescue workers to come to the scene. And come they did, in droves.

While Hezbollah and its apologists have been claiming that civilians could not freely flee the scene due to Israeli destruction of bridges and roads, the journalists and rescue teams from nearby Tyre had no problem getting there.

Lebanese rescue teams did not start evacuating the building until the morning and only after the camera crews came. The absence of a real rescue effort was explained by saying that equipment was lacking. There were no scenes of live or injured people being extracted.

There was little blood, CNN's Wedeman noted: all the victims, he concluded, appeared to have died while as they were sleeping -- sleeping, apparently, through thunderous Israeli air attacks. Rescue workers equipped with cameras were removing the bodies from the same opening in the collapsed structure. Journalists were not allowed near the collapsed building.

Rescue workers filmed as they went carried the victims on the stretchers, occasionally flipping up the blankets so that cameras could show the faces and bodies of the dead.

But Israelis steeled to scenes of carnage from Palestinian suicide bombings and Hezbollah rocket attack could not help but notice that these victims did not look like our victims. Their faces were ashen gray. While medical examination clearly is called for to arrive at a definitive dating and cause of their deaths, they do not appear to have died hours before. The bodies looked like they had been dead for days.

Viewers can judge for themselves. But the accumulating evidence suggests another explanation for what happened at Kana. The scenario would be a setup in which the time between the initial Israeli bombing near the building and morning reports of its collapse would have been used to "plant" bodies killed in previous fighting -- reports in previous days indicated that nearby Tyre was used as a temporary morgue -- place them in the basement, and then engineer a "controlled demolition" to fake another Israeli attack.

The well-documented use by Palestinians of this kind of faked footage -- from the alleged shooting of Mohammed Dura in Gaza, scenes from Jenin of "dead" victims falling off gurneys and then climbing back on -- have merited the creation of a new film genre called "Palliwood."

There is increasing evidence that the Kana sequel is another episode in this genre, a variety which might be called Hezbollywood. The Hezbollah have evidently learned their craft well.

The current suspension of Israeli military air activity is supposedly intended, among other things, to be used for the investigation of what really happened at Qana. It is to be hoped that there are real journalists on the scene, and unbiased medical examiners, who will have the courage and intelligence to sort out the anomalies and contradictions, and get to the buried truth of what happened.

There is no shortage of victims in Lebanon and Israel these days. From this vantage point, at this time, it looks like in the case of Qana, the world's media was duped in a cruel and colossal hoax by a terror organization that knows no moral bounds in its exploitation of suffering and anti-Israel hatred. But, as usual, the only party expected to pay the full price will be Israelis.

Yes, it would be a Hollywood ending for it all to end in Qana, exactly as it did a decade ago. But perfect endings, and perfect crimes, are rarely pulled off in real life.

Israelis will not be able to investigate this claim directly. The question remains whether honest men and women of other nationalities will let this likely lie stand or press for the revelation of the improbable and inconvenient truth.

Talk Back! Respond to this article

[thesightless]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

one more.

Lebanese website blames Hizbullah for Qana deaths

Anti-Syrian elements in Lebanon openly point finger at Hizbullah as guilty of killing of dozens of civilians in order to curtail plans for disarming group. 'Hizbullah has placed rocket launcher on building's roof and brought invalid children inside in bid to provoke Israeli response,' they write
Roee Nahmias

Hizbullah behind the tragic incident in the village of Qana that claimed the lives of some 60 people? While the Israeli army continues to investigate the circumstances leading to the building's collapse, some in Lebanon do not hesitate to point the finger at the Shiite organization and claim it is to blame for the death of dozens.

The Lebanese website LIBANOSCOPIE , associated with Christian elements in the country and which openly supports the anti-Syrian movement called the "March 14 Forces," reported that Hizbullah has masterminded a plan that would result in the killing of innocents in the Qana village, in a bid to foil Lebanese Prime Minister Fouad Siniora's "Seven Points Plan", which calls for deployment of the Lebanese army in southern Lebanon and the disarming of Hizbullah.

'Disabled children placed inside building'

"We have it from a credible source that Hizbullah, alarmed by Siniora's plan, has concocted an incident that would help thwart the negotiations.


Knowing full well that Israel will not hesitate to bombard civilian targets, Hizbullah gunmen placed a rocket launcher on the roof in Qana and brought disabled children inside, in a bid to provoke a response by the Israeli Air Force. In this way, they were planning to take advantage of the death of innocents and curtail the negotiation initiative," the site stated.

The site's editors also claimed that not only did Hizbullah stage the event, but that it also chose Qana for a specific reason: "They used Qana because the village had already turned into a symbol for massacring innocent civilians, and so they set up 'Qana 2'." Notably, the incident has indeed been dubbed "The second Qana massacre" by the Arab media.

(08.01.06, 07:53)

[KinKyJ]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

Interesting reads and it all seems to make sense when you take elements like the "aid worker" in the pics and the 7hr time lapse into account.

At first it seemed highly unlikely to me that Hezbollah was fucked up enough to blow up their own people for a PR stunt. But on the other hand, when I first heard that it went down in Qana, the first thing that went through my mind was: "C'mon, the Israelis can't be THAT stupid to make the same mistake twice?!"

Anyway, I'm not gonna speculate over what happened nor post any "who dunnit" statements until I read what really happened there.

[thesightless]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

back to kamal's original thought. and again, hear me out.

both of the world wars of the 20th century, and the other major, globe consuming war (the 2&crusade in combination with the muslim conquest) have been fought on 3 fronts.

today, our ill forgotten buddies over in asia, began a little skirmish, with some severe underlying reasons. north and south korea had a gunfight at the border. south korea launched a scientific satelllite which could spy on the north. the north has taken this as a serious act of aggression and already announced that they are speeding up missle production and increasing the size of their nuke programme. there is one front

obviously, the main front will be isreal

lastly, the third front, and frankly, the one which is going under the radar to the most dire of consequences. is africa. (sudan, somalia, ethiopia.) with all due respect to everyone outside of Yao, but anyone who is harping on about isreal, is talking out of both sides of thier mouth, simply for the reason that everything that is being complained about by certain peoples and groups, is clearly being ignored on a wider, more vile scale within the northern african region.

3 fronts again, signs of escalation, and the big boys whom are simpathetic to both sides arent jumping in yet.

not good. (thank god the american continents are essentially isolated by oceans, maybe we can unite the whole place for the human cause)

[KinKyJ]

Re: Are we on the brink of WWIII ?

^^^ yeah and then you're gonna start bitchin' again about border jumpers

Anyway, Peres listed the conditions for peace...

In a briefing with reporters at the Omni Berkshire Place hotel in Manhattan, Peres said Israel must:

ensure that Hezbollah will never return to the Israeli-Lebanese border;
obtain the release of two Israeli soldiers captured by Hezbollah guerrillas July 12;
stop Hezbollah from shooting missiles and rockets into Israel;
prevent the Lebanon-based militant group from rearming with missiles and rockets from Syria and Iran; and
free Lebanon from Hezbollah's control.

Israel doesn't have a problem with Lebanon, but with Hezbollah and its Syrian and Iranian backers, he said.

Full story